Posted on 01/29/2010 11:55:45 AM PST by Gamecock
Not only does the bible not teach that there are two distinct peoples of God, Israel and the Church, but it is very explicitly opposed to this idea. For one thing, the Church existed in the Old Testament, long before the outpouring of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost (see Acts 7:38); and furthermore, the clear teaching of the New Testament is that the modern day Church is really just the expansion of God's people Israel. According to Paul, being an Israelite has never been based merely on outward ethnicity (Rom. 2:28-29; 9:6-8); but those who have been called according to God's promise are Abraham's true seed (Rom. 9:8). Hence, all who have faith are Abraham's children, and the true Israel of God (Rom. 4:11-17; Galatians 3:6-9, 26-29; 4:21-31; 6:16; Phil. 3:3; 1 Pet. 2:9-10; Rev. 2:9).
When Paul deals extensively with the whole question of the place of Jews and Gentiles in the people of God, in Romans 11, he shows that there is just one people, symbolized by one good olive tree; unbelieving ethnic Jews may be broken off of that tree of true Israel and believing Gentiles may be grafted in; but there is still one tree, one body, one people of God. Thus, Paul teaches elsewhere that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ (Gal. 3:26-29; Col. 3:11), but that all believers are members of the same body, citizens of the one commonwealth of Israel, inheritors of all the promises made to Abraham (Eph. 2:11-22; 3:6; Gal. 4:26-31; Phil. 3:20; Heb. 12:22-23). In short, there is and always has been one people of God, and that people includes all those who are grafted in to God's “good olive tree” to become Abraham's children by faith, whether ethnic Jews or Gentiles.
Ping
Hey!
This is a booklet written by Lewis Sperry Chafer, founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, called “Dispensationalism”.
http://bartimaeus.us/pub_dom/dispensationalism.html
Grace to all the brethren,
“Does the bible teach that there are two peoples of God, Israel and the Church?”
Answer: No there is only “New Covenant Elect”, which are members of the Church.
Jer 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-
Lu 22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
Heb 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 9:15 ¶ And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Soli Deo Gloria!
That is a great statement of clarity on what the Bible teaches. It also happens to be what Seventh day Adventists believe. It is Biblical. Thank you.
There are NOT two Elects or two Chosen Peoples.
Scripture shows God drawing out a single company of people through time.
God draws His Elect from Judah and from the lost sheep of the House of Israel. (Mat.15:24) And heathen gentiles out in the nations, are also drawn into His covenant.
When heathen gentiles are saved by Israel’s Messiah He brings them into His eternal covenant.
And so in the new birth they take on their new identity in Israel. (Eph.2:12-13)
In the new birth Christians are no longer outside the Commonwealth of Israel.
And so they are no longer to be considered heathen gentiles
There is nothing inherently sacred about the word “Church”.
It is merely the Greek word “Ekklesia”.
It simply means a “called out assembly” or “congregation”.
So the real issue is simply this. To whom have we been “called out”?
As Christian believers we have been “called out” to Jesus Christ.
Responding to the Good News of the Gospel we came to Israel’s Messiah for salvation. And we asked the Holy One of Israel to come into our lives as Savior and Lord.
Our redemption comes from the New Covenant and the Gospel plan of salvation.
This, in turn, comes from the covenants of Israel. (Eph.2:12-13)
People are saved by grace through faith in Israel’s promised Sacrifice Lamb.
There simply is no other salvation plan being offered by our God.
Our Lord and Savior is the Holy One of Israel. (Act 4:12)
We are brought to salvation by our Jewish Messiah.
“The Church”, so called, is rooted and grounded in the true and genuine faith of Abraham. (Gal.3:29)
It has never replaced Israel, nor will it ever replace Israel.
Nowhere in the Holy Scriptures does God ever speak of two covenant peoples.
Nowhere in Holy Scripture do we see one salvation plan for Israel and another for the Church.
All who have been saved, or ever will be saved, are saved by the same plan of salvation. They are saved by grace through faith in Israel’s promised Sacrifice Lamb.
But this error of “two covenants” has crept in and dominated our thinking.
The error goes all the way back to the early Church Fathers. This is due to the deep and longstanding politico-religious rift between Christianity and Judaism. Religious leaders took it upon themselves to make an eternal theological division based on the breach of Jeroboam.
But in Christ our Savior we become new creatures. (2Cor.5:17) We become identified in Abraham’s Seed. (Gal.3:29) In covenant with our indwelling Jewish Messiah and King of Kings we actually take on new citizenship.
And in the covenants of Israel we become heirs according to the promise. (Gal.3:29)
A person who was formerly a heathen finds his Jewish Messiah.
And by the personal work of Christ in the Gospel he is “saved”. He may not realize it, but his heart has just undergone circumcision.
And as the flesh and the blood falls to the ground he also has a new identity in Israel.
Because of the kings and merchants this true identity of Christianity in Israel is veiled. But the Congregation of Israel, the true church, became a global company on the Day of Pentecost.
The New Covenant in the Gospel has overflowed the banks of Israel for the past 2,000 years. And it will continue to do so “all the days of the harvest”.
From Zechariah Chapter 4 When gentiles repent and are saved they are no longer gentiles. They are no longer spiritually uncircumcised heathen outsiders, or goyim.
Nor are they lost in the nations as aliens from the covenants of promise and outside of the Commonwealth of Israel. (Eph.2:12-13) Through the blood of Messiah they become new creatures. And so they are grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel. (See Ephesians 2:12-13)
The Holy Scriptures only speak of one covenant people of God. And they are identified in Israel.
Israel may have been split up into two kingdoms back in 900+ B.C.. And today we may have “the Church” and “Israel”, even as the two kingdoms and two houses of Israel.
But God never did ordain this nor speak in Holy Scripture of this lasting forever. Nor does the Bible ever speak of God instituting any “Apartheid of the Elect”.
So the present divided situation is temporary; and it is destined for restoration. The present “wall of separation” does not reflect God’s ultimate will or His plan.
The Messianic movement in Jewry has shown us what God will do.
He intends to unveil and restore “all Israel” at the climax of the age. (Zech 12:7-13:1)
The separation of the bulk of the royal tribe of Judah from the true Congregation of Israel is not “forever”.
What we see today is merely our present pragmatic Ecclesiastical and Judaic accommodation to the Breach of Jeroboam. The present split between Israel and the Church is quite obviously unfinished covenant business.
Throughout the history of Israel and the Church God has called out one Elect.
All the people who have been saved come in by His grace through faith and are personally known by God.
All of God’s Chosen People, from Abel to the last Tribulation saint, will be regathered. The end of the age will see them all glorified together.
THERE IS ONLY ONE ELECT PEOPLE AND THEY ARE DRAWN FROM BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES ALIKE.
Gamecock,
Do you really believe this stuff you post? Fully believe? Do you really believe the biblical usage in these articles is accurate?
Or is this just flame-bait?
A study of the word "church", in the Koine Greek : Ekklesia.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachWas the "church" started at the YHvH commanded
Feast day of Shavuot (pentecost) as some say ?or
Did the "church" exist earlier ?
Using the LXX as a guide we see that the Ekklesia
is first used in Deuteronomy 4:10NAsbU Deuteronomy 4:10 "Remember the day you stood before the LORD your GodAlso see : Deu 4:10, Deu 9:10, Deu 18:16, Deu 23:3, Deu 23:4, Deu 23:9, Deu 31:30,
at Horeb, when the LORD said to me, 'Assemble the people to Me, that I may let
them hear My words so they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on
the earth, and that they may teach their children.'
Jos 9:2, Jda 20.2, Jda 21:5, Jda 21:8, Jdg 20:2 Jdg 21:5, Jdg 21:8, 1 Sa 17:47,
1 Sa 19:20, 1 Ki 8:14, 1 Ki 8:22, 1 Ki 8:55, 1 Ki 8:65, 1 Ch 13:2, 1 Ch 13:4, 1 Ch 28:2,
1 Ch 28:8YHvH's larger plan of salvation, where His People are blinded for a time,
in order to bring His salvation to the gentile nations.NAsbU Romans 11:15 For if their ( His Chosen People ) rejection is the reconciliation of the world,And their ultimate salvation after a period of blindness is guaranteed by YHvH's covenant :
what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
NAsbU Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren,
to be uninformed of this mystery--
so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--
that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until
the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake,
but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
There is ony one people those whom has chosen as his people, which include jews and christians. to say there are two distict people, runs into heresy. Now if you want viewpoint on Dispensationalism this too is heresy. In Todays so called Christian circles there is too msny views that have come into the Picture In the mid to late 1800s in the US, you have the Millerites (Seventh Day Adventists) Campbellites (Church of Christ - no music), Jehovah Witnesses,Christian Science, Look at your Bible and Mormon ( Church of Latter Day saints) are all questionable in their respective teachings. Dispensationalism came into existence and it has been considered a heresy. Pentecostalism has come into existence and it has been considered heretical too. Read the background history of these religious movements. Look at the Purpose Driven Movement heresy, Church Growth Movement heresy. positive Confession Heresy, Christian Scientology heresy Read your Bible and study everything and anything. keep in mind when man touches he has a tendency to corrupt it and make it something that it was never intended to be. However their will never be a perfect religious tradition because mankind has a tendency to put its stamp on it and corrupting it. Personally I like the mennonite and amish (anabaptist) being separtate from the world, but the clothing restrictions and the strict rules and regulations.
Doctrine is important
Fundamentals of Faiths important
worshipping Christ
Fellowship with others
care of people in the church and the community
paying the government what it is owed.
limiting the government intervention into the individual liberties and freedom
Marriage and Family
These are the first 5 scriptures out of 70 others that are scriptural proof that all believers are Israelites, descendents of Abraham.
However you can be as Essau and give up your birthright for a bowl of lentils.
I have a free CD teaching on these Radical Biblical Truths with scriptures. Contact me for the CD.
Bottom line: the righteous will live by faith; the righteousness is a gift - the faith is a gift. It was so with Abraham, Moses and so it is with the Church - the bride of Christ - today.
Romans 9:6-8
...For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring...
In the end there can be only one...people.
Jer.23:3 But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries...
(6)In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called:
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Rom. 11:25 ...blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
What happens to Israel after all the Gentiles come in?
I quess God does have a plan for Israel. I think it's clear that they will come to know Jesus Christ as THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
And of course:
Romans 4:
The purpose (circumcision AFTER faith credited as righteousnesses) was to make him (Abraham) the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,
12and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
14For IF it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
15For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
16That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
17as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”
(emphasis added is mine)
iow: ONE PEOPLE - with Abraham as their father - a lineage acquired through faith in the promise of God.
...faith...ALONE
I do find it incredibly amusing that there are a great many in the church who somehow think that the natural children of Abraham are God’s children when the Bible is explicit that they are NOT. Only the children of the promise are considered Abraham’s offspring for the purpose of eternal salvation. This is why the Lord would choose in a way contrary to the custom of Abraham and his people. The elder served the younger.
According to Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 the Apostle Paul says that God is NOT through with the nation of Israel and contrary to the foolishness posed on this thread, the Church of Jesus Christ is NOT ISRAEL, nor will it ever BE Israel. Romans 9 - 11 makes this perfectly clear. God's word also proclaims that there is a time, yet future when "All Israel will be saved". The remnant will one day turn in National and individual faith to the Lord Jesus Christ and will accept Him and Him alone as their Messiah.
Romans chapter 9 = God's PAST dealings with the nation of Israel.
Romans chapter 10 = God's PRESENT dealings with the nation of Isarel.
Romans chapter 11 = God's FUTURE dealings with the nation of Israel.
Paul makes it perfectly clear that the promises God has made TO ISRAEL He will one day keep and fulfill to the nation of Israel, not the church!
Covenent "replacement theology" which holds and teaches that "the Church is Israel", is patently false.
No fair.
I’m debilitated.
Harumph.
[no sweat really but I had to give you a courtesy harumph!]
I agree.
Trying to understand the Tribulation makes a lot more sense when you look at it with the understanding that God is doing this to bring Israel home to Him. It's after He's done with the Gentiles.
Paul makes it perfectly clear that the promises God has made TO ISRAEL He will one day keep and fulfill to the nation of Israel, not the church!
I think the Reformed have a great deal correct. However, they often don't recognize how much of the RCC they brought with them when they left. Amillenial beliefs are one example. It is a belief that emerged as the RCC became a dominant force in the Roman Empire and comfortably fits with the RCC exercising force to push it's views since "it is ruling for Christ on earth".
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