Pulling a Lieberman

Slactivist ^ | 11/29/09 | Fred Clark

[steve-b]

First let me say a word in praise and defense of my former boss, my professor, mentor and friend Ron Sider. I need to start off with this affirming word because by the end of this post--and in the one to follow--I'm afraid I'm going to have to be rather harshly critical of my old friend.

...I have enormous respect and affection for Ron Sider, so much so that my regard for him is able to withstand even something like his dismaying endorsement of the overwrought, corrupt and corrupting "Manhattan Declaration."

In partial defense of Ron, though, we should note that his signature and support were secured under false pretenses. It seems he was lied to....

The Manhattan Declaration was created to threaten these younger evangelicals to get back in line with the precise priorities of their elders.... When talking to The New York Times' Laurie Goodstein, Colson is much more candid about this than he seems to have been when suckering Ron into pulling a Lieberman:

The signers... say they also want to speak to younger Christians who have become engaged in issues like climate change and global poverty....
"We argue that there is a hierarchy of issues," said Charles Colson, a prominent evangelical who founded Prison Fellowship after serving time in prison for his role in the Watergate scandal. "A lot of the younger evangelicals say they’re all alike. We’re hoping to educate them that these are the three most important issues."

"Paramount." "Hierarchy." "These are the three most important."

That's three ways of saying the exact opposite of what Sider was led to believe.

So, yes, I think that Colson lied to get Ron to sign on and that Ron fell for it....

[SoConPubbie]

Figures you would post this drivel steve-b.

[Mr. Lucky]

In the Museum of Disjointed Trains of Thought, this article will stand on a pedestal near the front door.

[RichInOC]

Never pull a Lieberman. You get dirty and Joe enjoys it.

[tx_eggman]

The whole point of this document was to threaten younger evangelicals who were perceived as getting a bit wobbly in their opposition to homosexuality. Evangelical Christians under 30 just don't seem to see that as a paramount moral concern -- and they can't see how gay couples wanting to marry could possibly be viewed as more morally significant than the fact that, by the time these younger evangelicals get to be Colson's age, Bangladesh will be under water.

Steve-b, you left out the alert

[Alex Murphy]

Sider's book Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger is an unflinching, uncompromising assessment of the Christian obligation to share with those in need. I know of few people able or willing to live up to that book's powerful call to sacrificial generosity, but Sider himself has done so for many decades. He is a gentle, irenic man and a Good Man....

....The organizers of this right-wing manifesto du jour needed a token liberal to provide a bipartisan fig-leaf, so they turned to Ron Sider (about as close as the evangelical world allows to a liberal) to be their Lieberman. But to convince him to play this role, they had to lie to him. I don't know which or how many of the declaration's three author-organizers did the actual lying. My money would be on convicted felon and would-be domestic terrorist Chuck Colson. (Yes, terrorist. Plotting to burn down the Brookings Institution in order to silence opposition from centrists is political terrorism.)

Sider is a marxist-socialist, pure and simple, who espouses UN population control and government wealth redistribution. He runs in the same circles and advocates the same kind of liberation theology that Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo do.

[Guyin4Os]

I wasn't going to sign the M.D. because I think there are more important things on earth than railing against homosexual marriage and abortion...namely evangelism and discipleship. But I may do so anyway because of this article.

In the great commission, Jesus did not command his followers to picket abortion clinics. He told them to go into the world and make disciples, baptize them and teach them to obey him. That's the most important thing.

Jesus never led a protest march to call Herod out for having John the Baptist executed... or even demanding his release before his death. Paul never led a grassroots movement demanding that Caesar stop gladiatorial games.

In my humble opinion, it is because Christians shirk their duty to evangelize that these problems (abortion, homosexual behavior, euthanasia, etc) become so pronounced.

Please don't get me wrong. Abortion is evil. Homosexual "marriage" should be stopped in its tracks. But these are not the most important issues facing Christian churches today. Evangelism and Discipleship are.

[steve-b]

Well, then, they probably shouldn’t have let him sign at all — and certainly should not have lied to him to persuade him to sign on.

[SoConPubbie]

Well, then, they probably shouldn’t have let him sign at all — and certainly should not have lied to him to persuade him to sign on.

Got proof of that slander ol' Stevey Boy?

[Guyin4Os]

Well, then, they probably shouldn’t have let him sign at all — and certainly should not have lied to him to persuade him to sign on.

Chuck Colson didn't lie to Ron Sider. Sider, in spite of his left-leaning redistributionist beliefs, is still an evangelical believer who understands homosexual behavior to be immoral. He is misguided but not evil. Those who would impose homosexual marriage on the US are evil. They have goals that go beyond their stated motivation of "equal rights for gays." They wish to destroy any influence evangelical Christianity has in the US. It is THEY who are lying to the well-meaning-but-misguided Ron Siders within Christianity.

[steve-b]

Read the full article, as you have obviously failed to do.

[SoConPubbie]

Read the full article, as you have obviously failed to do.

No, obviously YOU did not read the article.

There is no proof that Colson or anyone else lied to Ron Sider. Just unfounded left-wing based accusations, as almost all left-wing rants are full of.

[Guyin4Os]

There is no proof that Colson or anyone else lied to Ron Sider.

Exactly correct. They assume that since Sider shares their views on "feeding the world," that he must share their views on encouraging open homosexual behavior, which he does not. Anything that he signs that encourages believers to stand up against homosexual marriage must have been deceptive, since he signed it. Twisted logic, but it is the way leftists think.

[steve-b]

Er, no. Sider explicitly stated that the claim that the declaration's issues were more important that poverty was not how the document had been represented to him.

[Guyin4Os]

steve its good that you did not deny the fact that Sider believes that homosexual behavior is sinful. That tacit admission is important.

Btw, Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo both believe homosexual behavior is sinful as well.

[Lancey Howard]

...was not how the document had been represented to him.

???

Was this "document" something he could READ before signing?

[SoConPubbie]

Er, no. Sider explicitly stated that the claim that the declaration's issues were more important that poverty was not how the document had been represented to him.

Steve-b, please post the quote from Sider from the article where HE states he was mislead.

I could not find it.

I found the article's author accusation that Sider was lied to, but no factual evidence.

Prove me wrong Steve-o!

[Mrs. Don-o]

This attack on Ron Sider and his colleagues who are supporters of the Manhattan Declaration is remarkably uninformed and off the mark.

It is simply incorrect to say that the people involved in the Declaration are one-issue or two-issue (or even 3 or 4-issue) narrow-gauge zealots. Consider the principal authors:

Chuck Colson is a tireless advocate for prisoners and for people who are on the margins of society. His work has been of enormous spiritual and physical benefit to many who struggle and suffer most: drug addicts, convicted criminals and their families;

Dr. Robert George currently serves on UNESCO’s World Commission on the Ethics of Scientific Knowledge and Technology (COMEST), and has taught and written extensively against torture and war crimes, and argued against forced marriage, the oppression of women, and sexual trafficking on the basis of Natural Law;

Rev. Timothy Beeson points out that the dignity of life and of marriage as proclaimed in the Gospel "touch on everything else we do including the proclamation of the Gospel, concern for the poor, nurturing of children, ministry to prisoners, care of creation, and peacemaking in a broken world."

On these matters, the esteemed Ron Sider is surely acting in full awareness and agreement with the authors and the other signers of the Manhattan Declaration. They have challenged us to see the full dimensions of the Gospel, and I say "Bravo" and God bless them all.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Ron Sider's 1977 book "Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger" had all the faults you describ, Alex; but he was admitting he was wrong about statism, Marxism, population control even when I knew him (over 20 years ago) and since then has written frequently in favor of the right to life, against abortion and even against homosexuality, which he calls immoral.

I myself would be consumed with shame and indignation if I were to be perpetually judged by some of the the ignorant rubbish I expounded on in the 1970's.

Sider has admitted his mistakes and learned from his critics since then. We should be more just in our judgments: let's give him credit for allowing himself to be changed by accurate criticism. It's a virtue all of us would do well to acquire.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Google search shows no sign of Ron Sider saying he was "deceived" or that the Manhattan Document was "misrepresented." This author, Fred Clark, implies this by insinuation without ever quoting Sider.

I, personally, think Clark is engaged rhetorical monkeyshines here.