Paintball guns pilfered from Bethel area church

This boils down to, what is the purpose of “church?” (Or more exactly, what is the function of the Church of Jesus Christ in a pagan culture?)

Do we compete with the popular (read pagan) culture? Do we compromise with some aspects of popular culture? Is the Church a “cultural center” where we can take classes in art, go horseback riding, “kill” each other with paintball guns, play basketball, go on field trips...?

“This boils down to, what is the purpose of “church?”” [excerpt]

In light of the article, I think it would be more appropriate to ask, what is the purpose of a church sponsored summer camp?

“Do we compete with the popular (read pagan) culture? Do we compromise with some aspects of popular culture? Is the Church a “cultural center” where we can take classes in art, go horseback riding, “kill” each other with paintball guns, play basketball, go on field trips...?” [excerpt]

Church, or a church sponsored summer camp?

How are the various activities I've mentioned that are commonly associated with church sponsored summer camps not aligned with 1st Corinthians 9:19-22?

Shall we ban cars from church parking lots because they are very much a part of pagan culture?

But back to your original question, what is the purpose of 'church'?

A 'church' or a fellowship hall [aka, sanctuary] is just a building where people meet to fellowship, worship God, and receive biblical instruction. (and usually set aside for that specific purpose)

Horses, motorcycles, paintball guns, gokarts, etc, have no religious meaning and to my knowlage, nowhere in scripture are they prohibited from being present where believers gather. (not to say that having those items in the sanctuary would be appropriate by modern standards)

Storing paintball guns in a shed on church property is no different than a Christian owning a paintball gun.

If you can point out scripture that clearly says otherwise, please do!

Tell me, do you think it is scripturally wrong to hold God honoring homeschool graduations in a community church sanctuary?

There's a lot here to comment on.

First, it seems that historically the Church has been a body of believers that assemble to worship. The question is how did paint ball wars and churches securing away their arsenals from thieves? I don't suppose this is a problem if the church has not lost its primary function. I fear that all the other busyness has caused the Church to lose its vision. There are really people that choose a church by its “youth program” or other such amenity. We have all become “cafeteria Christians,” and it seems that the church as an institution has been quick to go along “for the greater good.”

Can a Christian play with paint balls? Sure. Does that make him a “Christian paint ball player?” (Paint ball wars for Jesus?)

Can a Christian drive a car? In doing so is he a “Christian driver?” (Commuting for Jesus?)

“Tell me, do you think it is scripturally wrong to hold God honoring homeschool graduations in a community church sanctuary?”

I have no clue where this came from, but I'll provide a quick opinion. If it is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is a great idea. I'd have a problem if it becomes a talent show or an awards ceremony, but that would be perfectly fine in a non-sacred space.

“The question is how did paint ball wars and churches securing away their arsenals from thieves? I don't suppose this is a problem if the church has not lost its primary function.” [excerpt]

A properly run Christ centered summer camp can be a valuable outreach tool, which [in my understanding] is a primary function of the church, but not a replacement for ministering to the members.

“I fear that all the other busyness has caused the Church to lose its vision.” [excerpt]

I would contend that some of the busyness is a result of a lost vision. (as well as some busyness that is the vision)

“There are really people that choose a church by its “youth program” or other such amenity.” [excerpt]

IMHO, a church should be chosen for its doctrine and leadership.

Christ centered youth programs either within or outside the church can be started as necessary.

“We have all become “cafeteria Christians,” and it seems that the church as an institution has been quick to go along “for the greater good.”” [excerpt]

Sadly, finding a Christ centered church with uncompromising leadership is rather hard these days.

“(Paint ball wars for Jesus?)” [excerpt]

Sounds like fun.

“I have no clue where this came from, but I'll provide a quick opinion. If it is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is a great idea. I'd have a problem if it becomes a talent show or an awards ceremony, but that would be perfectly fine in a non-sacred space.” [excerpt]

Just curious.

I am of the opinion that a community church should, without compromising their scriptural calling, provide [as much as possible] a Christ centered environment for the raising of Godly kids. (When I say community church I'm referring to the pastor/elders and the members of a medium/small church.)

FWIW.

“Sounds like fun.”

This is one of my concerns about Christian youth programs. Having fun and not being bored — is this not the essence of popular culture (hedonism)? Kids need to sit still and listen for the still small voice. Hyping them up with stimuli is much easier than reaching their forming intellect. They need AND want a break from all of this empty visual and aural noise.

Trying to compete with TV or MTV is a very difficult road to travel.

Christianity is counter-cultural.

St. John (the) Baptist, did not live a fun life (and death) on this earth.

I don't remember reading about the apostles having fun.

Those who were apostles of Jesus Christ on this earth did not have a fun life (all but one was martyred).

There are long lines of Christians (past and present) that paid with their earthly lives for their belief — they did not have fun.

Are we preparing these kids to possibly stand with this long line of martyred saints?

“Sounds like fun.”

Trying to compete with TV or MTV is a very difficult road to travel.

Christianity is counter-cultural.

St. John (the) Baptist, did not live a fun life (and death) on this earth.

I don't remember reading about the apostles having fun.

Those who were apostles of Jesus Christ on this earth did not have a fun life (all but one was martyred).

There are long lines of Christians (past and present) that paid with their earthly lives for their belief — they did not have fun.

Are we preparing these kids to possibly stand with this long line of martyred saints?

“This is one of my concerns about Christian youth programs. Having fun and not being bored — is this not the essence of popular culture (hedonism)?” [excerpt]

Christian youth programs shouldn't be exclusively about having fun.

However, if you take out the fun, the outreach ability of your program will be next to nil.

“Kids need to sit still and listen for the still small voice.” [excerpt]

Sitting a kid down and saying You will sit still and listen for the still small voice doesn't work any more than saying You will accept Jesus Christ.

“Hyping them up with stimuli is much easier than reaching their forming intellect.” [excerpt]

Hence, the entertainment industry.

“Trying to compete with TV or MTV is a very difficult road to travel.” [excerpt]

Trying to compete with that is like wrestling a pig. (you get muddy and the pig likes it)

Given the choice, most kids will choose what is probably the least good for them.

However, barring kids from having any fun is an excellent way to raise a rebel.

Tell me, are Christian summer camps as morally offensive to you as MTV?

“St. John (the) Baptist, did not live a fun life (and death) on this earth.

I don't remember reading about the apostles having fun.

Those who were apostles of Jesus Christ on this earth did not have a fun life (all but one was martyred).

There are long lines of Christians (past and present) that paid with their earthly lives for their belief — they did not have fun.” [excerpt]

Are you asserting that, as children, they never had fun?

“Are we preparing these kids to possibly stand with this long line of martyred saints?” [excerpt]

Depends on whether or not they've accepted Christ.

Whatever the case, if you have a way to reach kids for Christ and to prepare them for what is to come, then do it!

The proof is in the pudding and the chips will fall where they will, so if you have a better way than sports type summer camps, what are you waiting for?

If these regular summer camps are a failure when it comes to what is important, then you can do no worse.

“Tell me, are Christian summer camps as morally offensive to you as MTV?”

That's not possible for me to answer since every camp can be quite different. I did witness a Vacation Bible School this summer. I saw “adults” work the kids up into a frenzy with upbeat music and cheer-leader-style screaming with earsplitting amplification. The kids were turned into wild-eyed beasts. What did this have to do with a walk with Christ?

I'm not opposed to fun, but I am concerned when a church program seems to be only about someones concept of fun with minimal content. I had fun as a kid, both with fellow Christians and non-Christians. I don't remember much fun at church “organized” events, but a number of us would get together independently and have fun without the need of church sponsorship (and no, we did not get into trouble).

“Are you asserting that, as children, they never had fun?”
Of course not. This is not an all or nothing thing, but fun can be quite subjective. Some kids think it is fun to shoplift or torture animals. Other kids think that quietly reading a book is fun (note the popularity of the Harry Potter books).

“Are we preparing these kids to possibly stand with this long line of martyred saints?” [excerpt]
Depends on whether or not they've accepted Christ.

Not quite sure how to answer this other than to say that we will disagree on the concept of “accepting Christ.” In my view this is just the beginning of a journey. Many who “accept Christ” will travel in another direction when times are bad or good.

Just ran across a Ray Stedman sermon that seems relevant here. He refers to a “solar ray,” where we now would think of a atmosphere detonated a-bomb.

It is one of the ways we can recognize the world: it loves noise, because it does not want to stop and think.
And it loves to kill time, is always seeking ways to pass the time. Just this week I clipped an editorial from
Christianity Today:

Picture, if you will, some solar ray suddenly causing all radios, cassette players, stereo sets and televisions to
stop working. Trembling hands impatiently twirl dials, adjust knobs, flip switches. Eyes are dilated with fear.
Breathing comes in spasms. Marx was wrong. Religion isn't the opiate of modern man; incessant sound is.
We'll listen to anything to avoid silence — long pointless talk shows, boring conversations, round-the-clock news,
and even rock and country music. We like sound because it blocks out the despairing cry of our own souls, as well
as the still, small voice of God. But we need occasionally to take God's hand and journey into the fearful land of
silence. It can be both painful and healing with the presence of the One who is able to still the despairing cry,
and give us a new song of thanks.

Yes, that is the world. It comes at us constantly, trying to get us to think only in terms of immediate pleasure and
indulgence, and forgetting that it leads to slavery and bondage.

“I did witness a Vacation Bible School this summer. I saw “adults” work the kids up into a frenzy with upbeat music and cheer-leader-style screaming with earsplitting amplification. The kids were turned into wild-eyed beasts. What did this have to do with a walk with Christ?” [excerpt]

Sounds like the wrong people were in charge.

It happens, and in churches too. (and its not good)

“I'm not opposed to fun, but I am concerned when a church program seems to be only about someones concept of fun with minimal content.” [excerpt]

I agree.

“Are we preparing these kids to possibly stand with this long line of martyred saints?” [excerpt]
Depends on whether or not they've accepted Christ.
“Not quite sure how to answer this other than to say that we will disagree on the concept of “accepting Christ.”” [excerpt]

The only distinction I was trying to make was between those who either are indifferent or unaware of Christ, versus those who have accepted the gift of salvation as outlined in Ephesians 2:8.

“In my view this is just the beginning of a journey. Many who “accept Christ” will travel in another direction when times are bad or good.” [excerpt]

Mathew 13:3

“Just ran across a Ray Stedman sermon that seems relevant here.” [excerpt]

Picture, if you will, some solar ray suddenly causing all radios, cassette players, stereo sets and televisions to stop working.

In the winter when the power goes out [which it usually does] it gets quiet like that. (good find btw)

I guess in the end, what type of sports a summer camp has doesn't really matter as much as what type of leadership it has.

Looks like we need more God fearing leaders with enough integrity to stand up for what is right, come what may.

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