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To: AnalogReigns
The Catholic doctrine of the Assumption is directly related as a matter of rational logic to its doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.

If Mary was conceived without original sin, then she would have borne no stain of sin from the time of her conception and would therefore have not been subject to any characteristics of the fallen nature of the human race since the fall of Adam and Eve. One of the consequences of the fall of Adam and Eve was that humans by their very nature would be subject to physical/bodily death and the natural decay of their physical forms over time.

If Mary was conceived without original sin, then by her very nature she would not have been subject to these consequences related to a natural physical/bodily death.

If you want to contest the Catholic doctrine of the Assumption, then by definition you must question the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. Which means she could not have died a "natural" human death as anyone else would.

And if the Immaculate Conception was not a true, historical fact, then I'm not sure you can even say with any definitive authority that Jesus Christ was Divine.

7 posted on 08/17/2009 9:24:01 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (God is great, beer is good . . . and people are crazy.)
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To: Alberta's Child

“And if the Immaculate Conception was not a true, historical fact, then I’m not sure you can even say with any definitive authority that Jesus Christ was Divine.”

Why? There is no scriptural basis for the Immaculate Conception (”In the Constitution Ineffabilis Deus of 8 December, 1854, Pius IX pronounced and defined that the Blessed Virgin Mary “in the first instance of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin”).


11 posted on 08/17/2009 9:31:48 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Alberta's Child
And if the Immaculate Conception was not a true, historical fact, then I'm not sure you can even say with any definitive authority that Jesus Christ was Divine.

Utter nonsense. Mary was ancillary to the advent of Christ. She was not born without original sin. NOTHING in the scripture points to contrary.

To claim all of the trappings of the Immaculate Conception is to deny why Christ came in the first place. If ONE person can claim that they are without sin, then He died on the cross for NOTHING!

Paul states, unequivocally, that ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God (Romans 3:23).

Christ alone was without original sin because He was not conceived of through mans will, but of God's will!

To claim that those who disagree with IC would deny Christ His divinity is intellectually dishonest and, IMHO, blasphemy.

14 posted on 08/17/2009 9:34:27 AM PDT by rjsimmon (1-20-2013 The Tree of Liberty Thirsts)
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To: Alberta's Child
Death came thru Adam and life thru Jesus Christ. But before that death came thru a woman (Eve) and life came thru (the new Eve) Mary. Mary was chosen from all women throughout ALL of history to be the Mother of our Lord. "for behold from henceforth ALL generations shall call ME BLESSED"

Contemplate, if you haven't already upon -

The Holy Rosary, the prayer of the Gospel thru Mary's eyes : "Magnificat anima mea Dominum" - "MY SOUL doth MAGNIFY the LORD."

my emphasis

24 posted on 08/17/2009 9:45:10 AM PDT by frogjerk (tagline pulled for verification)
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To: Alberta's Child

Actually, you’re putting your own private human logic, above the holy Scriptures, that is seeing it as higher authority than the Word of God.

I believe Jesus was the divine Son of God, not because I can figure it out...from some imaginary sequence of Mary’s conception being sinless, thereby enabling her to bear Jesus, as also sinless, rather, I believe it because the holy Scriptures tell us directly that He is God and man, without sin.

Scripture never says Mary was without sin—it says she was given grace (which is unmerited favor) from God, and became pregnant as a virgin with Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Beyond that, the Holy Spirit writing through the Evangelists, does not say—and to speculate beyond that—as Roman human tradition has done—is downright silly, foolish—and even impious, arrogant and really unsafe.

The gospels actually indicate Jesus’ family—including Mary, one would think—didn’t always believe in Him—even at one point thought Him insane: “When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.” (Mark 3:21)....not exactly sinless belief.

Elevating Mary, without a shred of backing from holy Scriptures, DIRECTLY COMPETES with giving glory to Jesus Christ—Who is forever praised and glorified, WITHOUT RIVALS!!!


25 posted on 08/17/2009 9:45:44 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: Alberta's Child

If an axiom taken to a logical conclusion becomes an absurdity, then the axiom must be wrong.

Christ was wholly God and wholly Man. Immaculate Conception precludes the latter.


44 posted on 08/17/2009 10:00:35 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Your opinion is doubleplusungoodthinkful. You have been reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.)
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