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To: stfassisi
I have asked you numerous times if you think abortion and euthanasia are from the devil and therefore evil? Why is it you never answer?

Stamp your foot a little louder. I can't hear you.

Perhaps you think I've ignored your overly-obvious question because, after these months of discussing things with you, I (and anyone with two eyes) know where this is going.

And here's the answer from the Westminster Confession of Faith, securely founded on Scripture, per the proofs at the site...

OF GOD'S ETERNAL DECREE
Chapter III

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;[4] yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[5]

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11]

VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16]

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.[17]

VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,[18] that men, attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.[19] So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;[20] and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the Gospel.[21]

God is all holy; He "is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

And yet we have the fact that Satan is a created being, created by God who, like all creation, is under the firm control of the Triune God. Is this simple to understand? Nope. Can any alternatives make sense Scripturally or logically or spiritually? Nope, again.

As the Heidelberg Catechism says...

Question 32. But why art thou called a Christian?

(a) Answer: Because I am a member of Christ by faith, (b) and thus am partaker of his anointing; (c) that so I may confess his name, (d) and present myself a living sacrifice of thankfulness to him: (e) and also that with a free and good conscience I may fight against sin and Satan in this life (f) and afterwards I reign with him eternally, over all creatures. (g)

(a) Acts 11:26 (b) 1 Cor.6:15 (c) 1 John 2:27, Acts 2:17 (d) Matt.10:32, Rom.10:10, Mark 8:38 (e) Rom.12:1, 1 Pet.2:5, 1 Pet.2:9, Rev.5:8, Rev.5:10, Rev.1:6 (f) 1 Pet.2:11, Rom.6:12-13, Gal.5:16-17, Eph.6:11, 1 Tim.1:18-19 (g) 2 Tim.2:12, Matt.24:34

We fight against a creature of God's own eternal purpose and design. Those who persevere and overcome Satan do so only because of the righteousness of Christ mercifully, freely imputed to them by God's grace through faith. Without this imputation of righteousness all men are lost in their original fallen state, loving the devil, disobedience and evil. But thankfully, we "have not so learned Christ."

"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints" -- Ephesians 6:10-18

Satan is not some free-floating super villain over whom God has lost all control. That kind of world would be a mighty frightening place. Maybe that's why your church doesn't tell you the truth. Maybe it likes to keep you afraid. Resist the fear.

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" -- Colossians 2:6-10


32 posted on 06/19/2009 9:42:54 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Let me simplify your post....

The self professing elect Calvinists believes abortion is ordained by God,so it is God who planned the abortion, thus, making abortion ok because God needed there to be an abortion for something good to come out of it because God is incapable of there being good in the first place without the abortion

It's no surprise to me why you call John Calvin the founder of American Liberty. This type of liberty believes in the false freedom to make things like abortion and pornography legal.

This type of Liberty is a god that has failed!

37 posted on 06/20/2009 8:12:15 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

***OF GOD’S ETERNAL DECREE
Chapter III
I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;[4] yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[5]

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]***

Hello, Dr. E. Still peddling your papers?

I see that you have finally posted that the Reformed God creates people to go to hell for His own pleasure. I’ve been posting this to you for a long time and you keep denying it. Wonderful. I see that you have slunk away from the last thread. Were you possibly repulsed by the Gospel and Pauline and Petrine verses I kept posting to you? At any rate:

***God is all holy; He “is light, and in him is no darkness at all.”

And yet we have the fact that Satan is a created being, created by God who, like all creation, is under the firm control of the Triune God.***

Not Christian. Let’s put an X under the non Christian on this entry on the census.

*** Can any alternatives make sense Scripturally or logically or spiritually? ***

Only the Catechism of Christ, not the Catechism of the English Parliament. Or didn’t you know that the king of England commissioned, bought and paid for the Westminster Confession? The Vatican is a foreign country, but founded on Christ. England? Well?

***We fight against a creature of God’s own eternal purpose and design.***

The Christian does not believe that God is evil. God cannot be evil. He is of unlimited love and unsurpassed compassion. He is not evil. 1 John 1:
5
Now this is the message that we have heard from him and proclaim to you: God is light, 2 and in him there is no darkness at all.
6
If we say, “We have fellowship with him,” while we continue to walk in darkness, we lie and do not act in truth.
7
But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
8
If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, 3 and the truth is not in us.
9
If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.
10
If we say, “We have not sinned,” we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

There is no evil in God. Evil is the absence of God. The Reformed are dead wrong. God does not create evil; when men acknowledge our sins, He forgives them and brings us to Him. The Calvinist stiff necked sinners who refuse to acknowledge their own pride and sins are not brought into communion with Him. Not by His will, but by theirs.


57 posted on 06/20/2009 12:13:09 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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