Posted on 05/27/2009 5:56:53 AM PDT by Colofornian
The infamous Mountain Meadows Massacre, inscrutable enough just on the basis of the known facts, has been clouded over the past century and a half by myths and misconceptions.
Some such myths surround the 1875 and 1876 trials of John D. Lee, the only man ever tried and convicted for his role in the 1857 mass murder of Arkansas emigrants near Cedar City, Utah, by Mormon militia men.
In a May 22 session at the 44th annual Mormon History Association Conference meeting this year in Springfield, Robert H. Briggs, an attorney from Fullerton, Calif., and an author of articles on the massacre, appraised Lee's first trial.
The trials, the first of which ended in a hung jury, "presented a legal proceeding with implications far beyond the guilt or innocence of the individual defendant, a case in which the fate of the accused was threatened with being overwhelmed by larger issues and conflicts."
He called it "a case in which irreconcilably divided parties strenuously advanced positions to further their particular interests while all the while interpreting the trial through the prism of their own interests."
Brother Briggs said that for non-Mormons in the territory who opposed the Church's political dominance, the massacre was "Exhibit A" for what they regarded as "Mormon lawlessness."
The strategy of the prosecution was to establish links in the massacre to Church leaders in Salt Lake City, he said. "If they could implicate George A Smith [an apostle], that would be great, because that would just put them one step away from Brigham Young." In this, the judge who presided allowed them quite a bit of latitude, he added.
The jury was empaneled with eight Mormons and four "gentiles," and from the beginning, all sides recognized the probability that the case would end with a hung jury, Brother Briggs said.
Newspaper reporters at the trial scene sent dispatches mostly by telegraph, and the story was disseminated in every state in country, he said. "The prosecution, anticipating that they would receive much favorable coverage, and realizing that they might have a hung jury, made the very sagacious decision to try the case to the broader court of public opinion, which they were very successful at."
The trial ended with eight Mormons and one gentile voting to acquit and the other jury members to convict.
"Why did no Mormon juror vote to convict Lee?" he asked. In response he said that prosecutor Robert Baskin's closing argument went way beyond the issue of Lee's guilt and said the Mormon hierarchy was responsible, that the Mormons had a religious duty to shed blood, that Mormon men laid down their manhood when they became members of the Church by following the leaders.
"He has a whole section in there in which he says, 'I arraign Brigham Young.' "
Brother Briggs said Baskin insulted the Mormon men in the jury relative to their having made temple covenants.
"The strategy succeeded brilliantly," he commented. "During the otherwise slow months of 1875, the dramatic trial testimony had transfixed the nation. The Mormons', and particularly Brigham Young's, public reputation had declined precipitously. The Liberals [a political party in the state] were able to exploit the fact that despite the strong evidence of Lee's wrongdoing, the 'guilty' had failed to convict him. And the fact that not a single Mormon juror voted for conviction reinforced the widely held perception of the Mormon laity as a dupe of the Mormon hierarchy."
He concluded, "The Lee trials, particularly the first one, played a pivotal role in fomenting the national moral crusade that eventually transformed Utah's society, and politics and economy."
(Well, let's see here. Mass murder. By mass murderers. Execution style. Virginia Tech times 5 in terms of victims. Virginia Tech times dozens in terms of perpetrators. Yet each set of crimes yielded the same number of perpetrators. When you have mass murder and not much in the way of justice to show for it, then how can anybody conclude Utah Territory featured anything but "Mormon lawlessness?")
From the article: The jury was empaneled with eight Mormons and four "gentiles," and from the beginning, all sides recognized the probability that the case would end with a hung jury, Brother Briggs said.
This being the case, I guess it didn't matter what the prosecution did -- whether to try its case in the broader public opinion or not. I mean, if it was already pre-determined by all parties involved that a hung jury would be propped up, then it doesn't sound to me like justice was on the mind of the locals in Utah Territory.
From the article: He concluded, "The Lee trials, particularly the first one, played a pivotal role in fomenting the national moral crusade that eventually transformed Utah's society, and politics and economy."
Translation: "Brother Briggs" seems to be claiming here that mere mass murder trials had the multi-directional power to transform Utah society, economy & politics. Well, as for the Utah economy, I think the recently completed railroad going thru Utah was the primary instigator of that!
And as for Utah society, Republicans nation-wide had already been mounting a campaign against polygamy for 20 years. The trials didn't bring anything new. But, "Brother Briggs" is apparently content to believe that trying to bring anybody to justice for 120+ murders must be tying their bandwagon to a larger anti-polygamy campaign of "fomenting the national moral crusade"...
(Sounds just like liberals who accuse the Right of being "crusaders" -- of "fomenting the national crusade" when they object to abortion)
This is very interesting.
So, the morm ons were “innocent” ????????????
Well, in tha case, have the mormon heiarchy acted as though they belived there was no “lawlessness” by those bygone mormons ???
Let’s see...
1. The Morg “own” the very bones of the 120+ victims...
2. The descendants of the victims have never been allowed to bury their dead in an area where they can go to mourn them...
3. 17 tiny children were kiddnapped by the mormons...It took the army TWO years to get them back...
4, 1,000 head of cattle, expensive wagons and clothing and belongings, and a great deal of money was stolen by the morg and never given back...
5. The mormons never buried the bodies, nor told the government about the 120+ people lying dead for TWO years...
Are these the actions of people with no guilt or responsibility for a massacre ???
If the Morg really has believed for 150 years that their hands are clean, why have they not sympathized with the families and aided them in moving the bones to another place ???
Where’s the sympathy ??? Why were the dead never buried by the mormons ??? What guoul would leave the bodies of white men women, children and babies out on the praire for the animals to devour ???
If the Morg did not have blood on their hands, why have they acted so guilty and callous ???
Why do the Morg thrown elaborate “memorial” ceremonies ???
These are not their dead...
THere is something sick and twisted about the way the Morg have acted all these years...
The whole practice of secret rituals and secret meetings and blood oaths and combined with the insidious doctrine of Blood Atonement created the conditions upon which this crime could be perpetrated and then covered up.
But the truth will out.
If the Morg really has believed for 150 years that their hands are clean, why have they not sympathized with the families and aided them in moving the bones to another place ???
Where’s the sympathy ??? Why were the dead never buried by the mormons ??? What guoul would leave the bodies of white men women, children and babies out on the praire for the animals to devour ???
If the Morg did not have blood on their hands, why have they acted so guilty and callous ???
Maybe somebody can help me here...The headline of the official Lds church newspaper talks about "massacre myths" and the lead graph mentions the massacre "has been clouded over the past century and a half by myths and misconceptions" and it starts off the second graph mentioning "Some such myths..." -- but was it me or do you also find that this article isn't real specific on identifying what these myths supposedly are?
What "myths?"
What "misconceptions?"
(It seems like this writer & the Lds church is fearful even to mention what they are for fear they'll come up & bite them)
Mormonism was a violent cult. Its mellowed somewhat over time under the threat of the rest of the US.
I agree. As closed and controlled a society as Mormon Utah was then, I find it difficult to believe that Lee and the others would have acted on their own. This is the type of monumental decision that gets run up the hierarchy.
Personally, I believe that Brigham Young authorized it (or at least gave tacit approval). This was a huge decision which has the potential for becoming a huge disaster for the Mormons. No underling is going to take responsibility for such a huge decision knowing he would face Brigham Young's wrath if the situation blows up.
Of course, there is no available evidence to prove that speculation. If such evidence existed, it has either been destroyed or buried in the secret recesses of the President's vault.
I recommend Douglas Linder's website on both of the trials of John D. Lee. The author is a law school professor at the University of Missouri KC. Among other things, he presents trial and deposition transcripts, depositions, photographs, and much more.
Give them a couple of years and they will be claiming that the Fancher party, without provocation, massacred 120 mormon babies after tearing them from their mothers' arms.
The "poor, persecuted mormons" meme has served them well for over 150 years.
Having a massacre of some 120 people, probably because they were relatively wealthy and had fine horses, not to mention that the younger females were kept, along with the youngest boys, is not justifiable. To attempt to so do bolsters the common opinion that LDS is not Christian, either theologically or ethically.
Both Christians and Jews believe that is one sins, that admission of the sin is essential.
Brother Briggs comes across as deceptive and duplicitous.
Lee’s own bio reads like a close, trusted security official for BY personally and the Mormon leadership. Just the type to entrust with dirty work.
Ahhh, but don’t you know, Lee is a liar and a murderer. He can’t be trusted to tell the truth. He is the only one found guilty by an all mormon jury - -
Or at least that is what some Mormons on FreeRepublic have told me.
John D. Lee was a murderer and in collusion with other Mormons committed this atrocity. He was also my greatgreatgreat grandfather. I was born and raised in a town where a majority of the participants in the massacre settled - it was never spoken of.
Like Germans living outside the camps. “Camp? What camp?”
You just crack me up.
The local women have an organization called the DUP (Daughters of Utah Pioneers). They have published local history books. I have one published in the 1930’s by the Iron County DUP(where the instigators of the massacre lived). There are stories of everyday minutiae, illness, parades, who prayed in Sunday School, who graduated from High School, - basically about EVERYTHING - everything except the one single biggest event in their history - the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
These were journal keeping people. What happened to the record? Where is it? That should be the single biggest question on people's minds. Was the record destroyed and why?
I read the account in Dunn’s MASSACRES OF THE MOUNTAINS. It can still inflame you today!
You also get a different look at Sand Creek and the Washita battles, a definitly iconclastic book on American history.
***3. 17 tiny children were kiddnapped by the mormons...It took the army TWO years to get them back...***
I read a book by a mountain man ( I wish I could remember his name!) who was scouting for the US Army when the children were recovered. he wrote that only strong discipline by the officers prevented the soldiers from lynching many of the Mormons at Cedar City, and he said the stake house there still smelled like a slaughter house from all the looted bloody clothing the Mormons took from the dead victims.
Bingo. The Good Book says (book of James -- a "fave" book quoted by Mormons), "confess your sins to one another." "Confess" means "to agree with"...and I think it's time for contemporary lds to agree with historical reality instead of...
...glossing it over,
...covering it up,
...& painting motivations for trials of perpetrators as being part of some broader "conspiracy" supposedly geared to play...a pivotal role in fomenting the national moral crusade -- as "Brother Briggs" maintains for the Mormon historical society folks.
A massacre of this scale doesn't need to be hitched to broader crusades to weigh in on. The Fancher family blood still cries out from the ground west of Cedar City for justice. It deserves being featured in "Unsolved Crimes" TV & other news features.
Where has the Utah lackey media been all these generations?
Where has the investigative reporting gone into retreat in Utah?
Who are the people who have journals that would be revelatory who have tucked them carefully away?
Who are the de-facto accomplices to mass murder because they've refused to open their mouths?
(It's time to confess -- agree with the Lord & agree with historical reality -- and "make things right" before we meet Him face-to-face)
It’s hard for Christians to understand a so-called “church” where complicity is rewarded and confession is loathed.
(Ah. Spoken from a true former insider).
In light of that, I advise: It's time for Mormons to stop cherry-picking the book of James for fave proof-texts in James 1 and James 2 -- and to keep reading all the way through James 5 about confessing sins...and about not exercising favoritism...and about the dangers of wealth.
To tell truth, there are perhaps less than 200 Bible scriptures that the LDS use regularly and even those have questionable exegesis by them.
Of course, anything published by the LDS Church News is completely non-biased and objective. /s
While ALL the Mormons I have personally known are upstanding citizens, the early LDS church had strong similarities to Islam; it is no wonder to me that they were opposed.
While I know what you mean in terms of many fine external qualities, what this article conveys about some contemporary Mormons -- and more importantly, the source of this article, the organized Lds church, is...
...half-truthing,
...failure to focus on more important aspects of a major historical event,
...and historical revisionism bent upon slanting gentile motivations occurring in the latter 20th century.
(And I find nothing virtuous about that)
(In a RELIGION, predicated upon REVELATION, it is essential to examine FACTS...)
Ah...
My namesakes!!
--MormonDUPe(I just LOVE looking up endless geneologies!)
Religion, by definition, is a matter of faith. And, faith is somewhat independent of factual basis.
I must note that for many, their faith in the Obamassiah is being sorely tested by the non arrival of the Promised Checks.
While the Jews had to wander for 40 years to enter the Promised Land, there is growing loss of faith in the Promised Checks.
;-)
But often serve as excellent examples of eisegesis. A classic example is the use of 1 Corinthians 8:5 ("many gods and many lords") to prove a plurality of gods while ignoring 1 Corinthians 8:6 which states there is one God. I don't know if it is true in the Greek or not but 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 is one sentence in English.
But often serve as excellent examples of eisegesis. A classic example is the use of 1 Corinthians 8:5 ("many gods and many lords") to prove a plurality of gods while ignoring 1 Corinthians 8:6 which states there is one God. I don't know if it is true in the Greek or not but 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 is one sentence in English.
I don't think that Paul agrees with you. "And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty, and your faith is also empty." 1 Corinthians 15:14
The historical fact of the resurrection establishes Christ as the Messiah which God had promised and distiguishes him from the charlatans who came before and after him. If Jesus Christ, his claims, and the events of His life are myth, then so is Christianity. There is no other conclusion and we must be "pitied above all men" as Paul says.
My apologies if I am not reading enough into the "somewhat" in your initial statement. The true faith of Christianity is built on fact while faith on based on fact is simply wishful thinking.
Faith, by definition, is that which one believes in.
In America, if I believe in the Holy DuraCell Bunny, the Supreme Court correctly ruled that my belief does not have to be believable, only that I believe in it.
Whether I believe my Creator to be Christ or the DuraCell Bunny is a matter of my faith, and I alone determine my beliefs. On this point, the Founders both agreed and built an enduring society largely free of the religious wars which were so destructive in Europe.
Christianity would be no less important if Jesus had not arisin, so long as people believe He did. And such a belief is their choice.
Whether He did is a matter of history, and perhaps verifiable.
His teachings remain valid, miracles or no miracles.
Allow me to close this post with:
The Ten Commandments Forever.
The above sentence should read:
The true faith of Christianity is built on fact while faith NOT based on fact is simply wishful thinking.
The disciples didn't just believe they met the risen Lord, they testified so strongly of His actual risen staus that they had their lives snuffed out for it.
To people like you show yourself to be who don't have a grasp of what/Whom IS Truth, any transactional religiosity will do so long as the adherent believes it. Jesus taught that to be a sure means to damnation because it denies His Grace toward you as essential to your deliverance.
"If any miserible scoundrels come here, cut their throats"
Bringham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, pg 311
Faith is an active word; action based upon belief, sustained by the confidence God’s response to your faith brings about.
BTW, for a supposedly well educated person, spelling eruption as ‘irruption’ is telling. [As seen on your FR homepage.]
The ‘irruption’ didn’t happen before natural balances were disrupted.
I think I am a bit lost - what is “transactional religiosity”?
Google was also not very helpful on a definition of the above term.
MHGinTN: If you are ever born again by His Spriit--made possible because He DID rise from the tomb and be seen by hundreds before His Ascension, thus graphically illustrating the Truth He taught--you will understand why your assertion is as empty as any lie a demon has ever tried to float.
Further, I aver that every Christian who knows Christ this way by the indwelling of the Spirit has no doubt whatsoever that the tomb is empty.
transactional religiosity = “Christianity would be no less important if Jesus had not arisin, so long as people believe He did.”
"As I entered the fortifications, men, women and children gathered around me in wild consternation. Some felt that the time of their happy deliverance had come, while others, although in deep distress, and all in tears, looked upon me with doubt, distrust and terror." Describing his sensations, Lee continues: "My position was painful, trying and awful; my brain seemed to be on fire; my feelings were for a moment unstrung; humanity was overpowered, as I thought the cruel, unmanly part I was acting. ... I knew that I was acting a cruel part and doing a damnable deed. Yet my faith in the godliness of my leaders was such that it forced me to think that I was not sufficiently spiritual to act the important part I was commanded to perform....
... I delivered my message, and told the people that they must put their arms in the wagon, so as not to arouse the animosity of the Indians. I ordered the children and wounded, some clothing and arms, to be put into the wagons." In speaking of the defensive condition of*the camp, Lee says: "If the emigrants had had a good supply of ammunition they never would have surrendered; and I do not think we could have captured them without great loss, for they were brave men and very resolute and determined."
You post a picture of real evil working itself out through the behavior of armed thugs. Did you somehow mean to apply that graphic image to something regarding the Mountain Meadows massacre? It is the same sort of thing, so stark that people don’t want to believe it actually could happen. In retrospect, we can look at that picture and the reality of ‘transactional religiosity’ is ‘too much with us’.
Yes.
I don’t think hate is enough to motivate people. They have to have a bright, shinning higher purpose, of which the object of the hate is an obstacle.
In the pictures case the Jews, and others, were the human obstacle to the Nazis ideal state. Ditto Pol Pot for urban dwellers. And of course now with Islam.
With the MMM you had, at least, 50 direct Mormon males involved in the planning and attack, which lasted a week and then directly each murdering a male, with maybe another twenty, and either with, or for years an orchestrated cover up, right to the top. This is a group psychosis event.
(And let's not forget the Powell party -- the Civil War vet who was the first White man to fully float down the Colorado River thru the Grand Canyon...part of his party -- two men -- broke away from the party when they were low on food & supplies and headed north toward Utah...reports later surfaced that they were "found" dead...some writings by a few deceased Mormons indicate they were killed in Southern Utah -- suspected of being govt spies...of course, the same M.O. tale was used: "The Indians did it.")
That is neat. Is that really an optical illusion? As I’m seeing this on a computer, it occurs to me that this could be animated.
The LDS cult spin machine works endlessly to
alter, polish, expunge, etc. its record. Here
is one more example.
And the Baptcult ran lynch mobs for over a hundred years. Thousands dead. I condemn them.
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