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Are new 'Puritans' gaining? (OPEN)
Mormon Times | March 19, 2009 | Orson Scott Card

Posted on 03/20/2009 7:55:01 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

Are new 'Puritans' gaining?
 
By Orson Scott Card
Thursday, Mar. 19, 2009
 
 
It was interesting to see how many American religions had lost ground in the past two decades, according to the American Religious Identification Survey.

With all our missionary work, we Latter-day Saints merely managed to keep pace with population growth in America, remaining at a steady 1.4 percent of the population. In fact, Mormons were the only group to show no change at all, relative to the America as a whole. We're swimming as fast as we can -- just to stay in place.
 
The two groups that showed the largest growth in numbers -- by far -- were "no religion" and "don't know/refused."

The report in USA Today on March 9 thought this meant that America is becoming "less religious."

I don't think so. I think that hiding within those "no religion" and "don't know/refused" categories we can see the growth of a powerful new religion.

A fanatical religion -- one that does not proselytize so much as insist that it is already the established church, to which all others must bow and make way.

It is a religion at war with all others, confident of victory, contemptuous of any church that does not fight them, savage against any that shows a sign of resistance.

Its adherents feel themselves to have risen so far above all other faiths that they claim they are not a religion at all -- they are post-religious. Therefore the rules that govern the behavior of other religions in a multifaith society do not apply to them.

They refuse to admit that they even exist. Instead, they claim to believe in "science," though they have no idea what the methodology of good science is, and reject the findings of science when they contradict treasured dogmas.

Having no authoritative group to define their ideology, they embrace opposite and contradictory dogmas and simultaneously believe in all.

Their doctrines spread like dandelion seeds on the wind, taking root wherever there is empty ground.

Has there ever been such a religious movement as this before?

A very good example is Puritanism in the 16th and 17th centuries.

There was no "church" of Puritanism. They were led by orators and pamphleteers, poets (John Milton was one) and politicians (most notably the dictator Oliver Cromwell).

In Shakespeare's day they were a constant annoyance to those committed to putting on his wicked, worldly plays, for the Puritans always had the aim of using the power of the state to enforce their ideas of strict Christianity.

And when they finally seized power after the execution of King Charles I, they set about remaking society as they believed it ought to be. Gone were frivolous holidays like Christmas; gone any decorations in the churches; gone, too, the plays that had once distracted idle people from their labor and worship.

Having once been themselves dissenters, they allowed no right of dissent to others. They had power, and knew that they deserved it.

In America, the Massachusetts Bay Colony was founded by Puritans, and they were determined to hold sway in New England -- and everywhere else, if they could manage it.

Puritanism insisted on its exclusive right to prescribe the behavior and thoughts of all, until, after the death of Oliver Cromwell, the groaning people embraced the return of the monarchy.

Throughout the history of the movement, it had no hierarchy, no organization, and in some senses could be said never to have existed at all. When it fell from power, Puritanism quickly evaporated -- as if it had never existed at all.

No one wanted to claim responsibility for the excesses of Puritanism. It had functioned like bees, swarming and stinging in relentless pursuit of their enemies, but when finally defeated, dispersing and going about their innocent business, flower by flower.

The astonishing thing was that active Puritans were never very numerous. But few dared to argue against them, so they carried the day as if their numbers were far greater than they really were.

Today, the New Puritans embrace a hodgepodge of dogmas drawn from feminism, environmentalism, gay activism and militant atheism.

They bristle at the slightest sign of Christians laying hold on the machinery of the state -- while having no compunction about using the power of the state to establish their own dogmas in the schools and in the courts.

Believing in no god, they have no law to check them; whatever they think to do, they will try to do, and their fury when they are resisted knows no restraint.

Yet when you ask them why their vision of the public good is better than any other, they have no reasons. They can produce no viable evidence of superiority.

They gesture toward "science" as their authority, but refuse to allow anyone to conduct or report research that might contradict their absurdest claims.

They strike down old laws and institutions without regard for the cost. Where they have prevailed, only misery follows; but they are sure that the misery they caused can only be treated by enacting even more extreme measures along the same failed lines.

The New Puritans are the fastest growing sect in America, but they are still a minority. This does not bother them; they care nothing for democracy or majority rule.

The New Puritans insist that their opponents' very status as believers in God disqualifies them from the right to advance their ideas by democratic means.

They largely control the bar associations, the faculties of universities, the national media, the entertainment industry, and judges routinely strike down laws that offend the dogmas of the New Puritans.

And yet they are the majority almost nowhere. They prevail because they have no restraints -- their attack on their enemies is instant and savage, and ordinary people, wishing only to be left alone, keep their heads down and try to stay out of the way.Except a few. We hold up our hands and speak of democracy, of tradition, of the need to know where we're going before we race there. We speak of evidence and logic, and we are answered, not with argument, but with screaming; for asking questions or contributing money to a cause, we are threatened with boycott, fired from jobs, denied tenure.

Here is the great advantage of the New Puritans. Because they have no organization, their numbers can never be measured. They claim to speak for "all intelligent people," and the very claim pressures anyone who wishes to be thought "intelligent" into silence.

With all the mercy and reason of the Taliban whenever they get any kind of authority, their revolution is already almost complete; their hands control most of the switches of the machinery of the state.

Meanwhile, they excoriate all religions as responsible for every crime in history, never noticing that the worst moral excesses of all time -- the mass-murdering rulers of Nazi, Fascist, and Communist states -- were all converts to and adherents of "post-religious" ideologies.

Their only authority is their own will to rule over the minds and acts of others. It will never be satisfied; every victory only makes them hungry to rule more closely and punish more savagely those who are not sufficiently pure.

If sometimes our 1.4 percent seems to be very, very small, an archipelago of tiny islands, let us remember that most people subject to the rule of the New Puritans hate it, and only go along when no one else is willing to stand against it.

We, however, stand even when we stand alone, because God has said, "You shall ever open your mouth in my cause, not fearing what man can do, for I am with you. Amen" (Doctrine and Covenants 30:11).


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: christian; lds; mormon; orsonscottcard; osc
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1 posted on 03/20/2009 7:55:01 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...

Ping


2 posted on 03/20/2009 7:55:28 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Recession-Your neighbor loses his job, Depression-you lost your job, Recovery-Obama loses HIS job.)
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To: greyfoxx39
URL for the above article by Card is:

HERE

3 posted on 03/20/2009 7:58:20 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Recession-Your neighbor loses his job, Depression-you lost your job, Recovery-Obama loses HIS job.)
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To: greyfoxx39

God has said, “You shall ever open your mouth in my cause, not fearing what man can do, for I am with you. Amen” (Doctrine and Covenants 30:11).
_____________________________________________

Prozac...


4 posted on 03/20/2009 8:11:10 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

I am a Catholic and I agree with every word of the above. Very well written.


5 posted on 03/20/2009 8:14:35 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: Dr. Sivana

I’m not a Catholic, but ditto.. nice to see articles reminding everyone we all are on the same side of a much bigger battle.


6 posted on 03/20/2009 8:19:52 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: greyfoxx39

Unfortunately in trying to make a point about the left, Card repeats anti-Cromwell/Puritan Restoration propaganda, which has subsequently been amplified by subsequent generations of leftists. At this point there is probably no point in pointing out the error because so many are invested in a false understanding of the Puritans. But for anyone who might have a moderately open mind, Cromwell and the Puritans first tried to establish a Republic governed by Parliament. When the monarchial culture frustrated that effort, they tried to establish a consitutional monarchy, which Charles I rejected. It was only after another 28 years of corrupt, degenerate Stuart rule that England finally got a clue, which resulted in the Glorious Revoltion of 1688, the English Bill of Rights of 1689, and a constitutional monarchy under William and Mary. None of this would have happened if it hadn’t been for the Puritans and Cromwell putting an end to the Renaissance-inspired totalitarian conception of absolute monarchy that the Tudors and Stuarts sought to impose over time.

As is true of all humans, Cromwell and the Puritans were far from perfect, a fact which they would have readily admitted, but they were vastly better than what preceeded them and what followed them.

Card’s “new Puritans” have as much to do with the historical Puritans as metastasizing cancer has to do with good health.


7 posted on 03/20/2009 8:28:22 AM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: achilles2000

Leave it to a Mormon to attack the Puritans.


8 posted on 03/20/2009 8:37:39 AM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: achilles2000

Good article by Card and good corrective to Card’s article by you.


9 posted on 03/20/2009 8:57:46 AM PDT by marron
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To: colorcountry

I don’t think that Card’s comments have anything to do with Mormonism. The “meme” regarding Cromwell and the Puritans is so entrenched now that most people just assume it is true. I suspect we’ve all found ourselves in situations where we have done the same thing as Card - at least I have.


10 posted on 03/20/2009 9:04:45 AM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: achilles2000
Card’s “new Puritans” have as much to do with the historical Puritans as metastasizing cancer has to do with good health.

Have you seen what early mormon leaders have had to say about ALL Christianity?

He's just following in their footsteps..equal-opportunity bashers, playing the persecution card at the same time.

11 posted on 03/20/2009 9:07:38 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Recession-Your neighbor loses his job, Depression-you lost your job, Recovery-Obama loses HIS job.)
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To: colorcountry; ejonesie22
Boy, the irony in that article is so thick it's almost funny.

They largely control the bar associations, the faculties of universities, the national media, the entertainment industry, and judges routinely strike down laws that offend the dogmas of the New Puritans.

Does Card live in Utah?

12 posted on 03/20/2009 9:13:18 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Recession-Your neighbor loses his job, Depression-you lost your job, Recovery-Obama loses HIS job.)
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To: greyfoxx39
A fanatical religion -- one that does not proselytize so much as insist that it is already the established church, to which all others must bow and make way....

It is a religion at war with all others, confident of victory, contemptuous of any church that does not fight them, savage against any that shows a sign of resistance.

Its adherents feel themselves to have risen so far above all other faiths that they claim they are not a religion at all -- they are post-religious. Therefore the rules that govern the behavior of other religions in a multifaith society do not apply to them.

Has there ever been such a religious movement as this before?

A very good example is Puritanism in the 16th and 17th centuries.

...the Puritans always had the aim of using the power of the state to enforce their ideas of strict Christianity.

Having once been themselves dissenters, they allowed no right of dissent to others. They had power, and knew that they deserved it.

In America, the Massachusetts Bay Colony was founded by Puritans, and they were determined to hold sway in New England -- and everywhere else, if they could manage it.

Puritanism insisted on its exclusive right to prescribe the behavior and thoughts of all, until, after the death of Oliver Cromwell, the groaning people embraced the return of the monarchy.

Orson Scott Card doesn't think much of the early Americans that shaped this country and it's laws, does he?

Thanking the Puritans on Thanksgiving: Pilgrims' politics and American virtue
The real Puritan legacy

13 posted on 03/20/2009 9:14:56 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: greyfoxx39

“Have you seen what early mormon leaders have had to say about ALL Christianity?”

No.


14 posted on 03/20/2009 9:20:14 AM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: greyfoxx39
Mr. Card is mentally ill.

"A very good example is Puritanism in the 16th and 17th centuries..."
...
"Meanwhile, they excoriate all religions as responsible for every crime in history, never noticing that the worst moral excesses of all time -- the mass-murdering rulers of Nazi, Fascist, and Communist states -- were all converts to and adherents of "post-religious" ideologies."

I'm not even going to waste my time trying to figure out the pathology of his disjointed comparison.

Cordially,

15 posted on 03/20/2009 9:22:01 AM PDT by Diamond (:^)
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To: achilles2000
Here is what Bruce Redd McConkie (July 29, 1915 – April 19, 1985), a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) from 1972 until his death, a fairly recent leader, had to say.

"The traditions of the elders - as is also the case with the traditions of an apostate Christendom - are wholly devoid of the least scintilla of inspiration. They are, as Jesus said, 'the commandments of men'" (The Mortal Messiah, Vol.2, FOOTNOTES, Pg.412).

"What of seventies? Who are they, and how do they fit into the eternal scheme of things? That their mission and ministry is unknown among the cults of Christendom is one of the great evidences of the apostate darkness that engulfs those who call themselves by the name of Him who called seventies to stand as especial witnesses of that very name" (The Mortal Messiah, 3:99-100).

"Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general. False churches, false prophets, false worship - breeding as they do a way of life that runs counter to the divine will - all these are signs of the times" (The Millennial Messiah, pg.403).

"What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power? ...It is all of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel ...It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts" (The Millennial Messiah, pp.54-55).

"As with other doctrines and ordinances, apostate substitutes of the real thing are found both among pagans and supposed Christians" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.72).

"When inquiring and scientific minds delve into the narrow and bigoted creeds of the apostate sects of Christendom it is not surprising that they rebel against those dogmas falsely set forth as the tenets of true religion" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.107).

"Christianity is the religion of the Christians. Hence, true and acceptable Christianity is found among the saints who have the fullness of the gospel, and a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.132).

"The only real superiority of the apostate sects of Christendom over their more openly pagan counterparts is the fact that the Christian sects (though rejecting the doctrines, ordinances, and powers of the gospel) have nonetheless preserved many of the ethical teachings of Christ and the apostles" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.240).

"And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.269).

"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, pg.316).

"In large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed before the Unknown God, and to whom Paul said: "Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 374).

"For instance: The creeds of apostate Christendom teach untruths about God, and the scriptures say that those who accept these creeds 'have inherited lies.' (Jer. 16:16-21.) Those who accept any of the doctrines of the apostate churches are said to 'believe a lie.' (2 Thess. 2:1-12.) The process of apostasy consists in changing 'the truth of God into a lie.'" (Mormon Doctrine pg. 440).

"Pagan tribal gods were the creation of the imaginations of apostate peoples, just as the creeds and apostate views of God which prevail in modern Christendom are the result of forsaking the truth" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 511).

"Mormonism is Christianity; Christianity is Mormonism; they are one and the same, and they are not to be distinguished from each other in the minutest detail ...Mormons are true Christians; their worship is the pure, unadulterated Christianity authored by Christ and accepted by Peter, James, and John and all the ancient saints" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.513).

"The gods of Christendom, for instance, are gods who were created by men in the creeds of an apostate people. There is little profit or peace in serving them, and certainly there is no salvation available through them" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg.545).

Link

16 posted on 03/20/2009 9:28:58 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Recession-Your neighbor loses his job, Depression-you lost your job, Recovery-Obama loses HIS job.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Photobucket
17 posted on 03/20/2009 10:10:07 AM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian. "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Diamond
>>>Mr. Card is mentally ill.

Yes, in a manner of speaking, since he is a Democrat. Mr. Card is a pretty rare breed (along with the senate majority leader). Some of his opinions and sci fi books are interesting but many of his views do not reflect the views of the majority of Mormons.

18 posted on 03/20/2009 10:36:08 AM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: achilles2000
No.
 
Well; be unknowing no longer...
 
It started HERE:
 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

19 posted on 03/20/2009 11:46:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: achilles2000
And then, in the years following...
 

 

 
Statements by Mormon Leaders about Christian churches (made by many of the LDS Prophet-Presidents):
 
Joseph Smith stated that God told him: "they [other churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).
 
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
 

 
 
 

20 posted on 03/20/2009 11:50:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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