Pope Benedict will not visit Israeli museum which denigrates Pius XII

CatholicNewsAgency ^ | Rome, Italy, Mar 7, 2009

[GonzoII]

Pope Benedict will not visit Israeli museum which denigrates Pius XII

Pope Benedict XVI

Rome, Italy, Mar 7, 2009 / 07:18 pm (CNA).- The Israeli ambassador to the Holy See on Friday said that Pope Benedict XVI will not visit Israel’s Holocaust Museum which accuses Pope Pius XII of inaction on the Holocaust. The news comes as a researcher announced on Friday that he had discovered a message from Pius XII that ordered monasteries to give refuge to Jews.

During the Pope’s May 8-15 trip, the pontiff will attend a memorial ceremony at the Yad Vasdhem site but will not visit the museum itself, Ambassador Mordechai Levi told the Italian news agency ANSA. Instead, the Pope, accompanied by Israeli President Shimon Peres, will light a remembrance fire and make a speech.

A caption of a Pope Pius XII exhibit at the museum reads:

“Even when reports about the murder of Jews reached the Vatican, the pope did not protest, either verbally or in writing. In December 1942, [Pius XII] abstained from signing the Allied declaration condemning the extermination of the Jews. When Jews were deported from Rome to Auschwitz, the pope did not intervene.

"The pope maintained his neutral position throughout the war, with the exception of appeals to the rulers of Hungary and Slovakia toward its end. His silence and the absence of guidelines obliged churchmen throughout Europe to decide on their own how to react."

Despite Pope Pius XII’s wartime actions which saved many Jews from Nazi persecution, he has been persistently attacked by some critics who adopt the same line of attack as the caption in Yad Vashem.

The Holy See’s representative to Israel has objected to the caption, as have other Catholics. Ambassador Levi’s comments came after reports that the exhibit caption might be changed.

A debate at Yad Vashem will reportedly take place on Sunday and Monday. The gathering will look at Pius XII in light of the latest historical evidence.

Organizers said the conference will see “if there is something new or something which has to be completely revised” because of new research, ANSA reports.

Recently, Fr. Peter Gumpel, the promoter of Pope Pius XII’s cause of beatification, revealed a note by Pope Pius XII from the archives of a Roman monastery which directly ordered monasteries to shelter persecuted Jews.

“The Holy Father wishes to save his children, the Jews as well, and orders that the Monasteries provide hospitality to these persecuted people,” the November 1943 note reads.

Speaking to Vatican Radio, Fr. Gumpel said there are “numerous oral testimonies” from priests, nuns and others about the Pope’s actions during World War II, but Pius XII’s detractors often demand written evidence.

Fr. Gumpel argued that it would have been dangerous to commit such orders to paper in a time of war and hostility.

He said the rediscovered note could be useful in countering “those who persistently denigrate Pius XII and attack the Catholic Church.”

Yad Vashem’s controversial caption appeared in 2005 when a new museum was unveiled. In 2007, Vatican Ambassador to Israel Archbishop Antonio Franco refused to attend the annual Holocaust remembrance ceremony at Yad Vashem because of the caption.

Copyright @ CNA
(http://www.catholicnewsagency.com)

[rmlew]

The Pope should denounce the lie as what it is, an attempt by socialists to create hatred between Jews and Catholics.

[rmlew]

You mean like Communist Poland, which for years decided that there was no targetted killing of Jews just of Poles?
There is no such thing as Jewish Communist any more than a Chirstian Communist.

[chase19]

Pope Pius XII and the Jews
SR. MARGHERITA MARCHIONE

[...]

Opening the cloister

Since this encounter, I’ve been striving to write from my heart a “manifesto” for justice. Pope Pius XII, through ecclesiastical channels, instructed priests and nuns to shelter any Jew who knocked on their doors. When I learned about this, and about the Vatican’s network to provide false identification papers for Jews and other refugees, I decided to publish these facts.

For several years Pope Pius XII did not leave the Vatican, where he was concealing many Jews. Every corner of his estate at Castelgandolfo, his summer home, also was occupied by them. According to Father Robert A. Graham, S.J., the editor of World War II Vatican documents, word spread from the Vatican for Religious to open the doors of convents and monasteries to protect Jews. Directives were only given orally because, under the German occupation, all archives were subject to Gestapo raids.

This was an extraordinary Vatican command because until this time convents and monasteries were considered cloistered. Very strict regulations existed that prohibited the laity from entering these cloistered areas. In those days one’s own parents were nor allowed to enter the private quarters of a convent or monastery. Neither was anyone else. However, when Jews and other refugees needed sanctuary, the regulations were suspended.

For fifty years, books have been published, films have been produced, lectures have been given, but few people have defended Pope Pius XII. In his time, people from different parts of the world insisted that the pope publicly condemn the Nazis. But to the very end, Pius XII was convinced that, should he denounce Hitler, there would be serious and devastating retaliation.

Evidence shows that he was right. Bishop Jean Bernard of Luxembourg, an inmate of Dachau from February 1941 to August 1942, declared that “whenever protests were made, treatment of prisoners worsened immediately.” Because of the pope’s prudence and courage, many more lives were saved. If Pope Pius XII had protested, not only would he have been unsuccessful in halting the destruction, but he might have caused a great deal of additional damage to the thousands of Jews hidden in the Vatican, in convents and monasteries, as well as to the Church in German-occupied Europe. Nazi policy sought the extermination not only of Jews but of certain non-Jewish peoples as well. The thousands of Jews hidden in convents and monasteries would have been sent to concentration camps along with those who were trying to save them.

[...]

The testimony of Dr. Joseph Nathan, who represented the Hebrew Commission, is remarkable. At the end of World War II, he addressed the Jewish community and expressed heartfelt gratitude to those who protected and saved Jews during the Nazi-fascist persecutions. “Above all,” he stated, “we acknowledge the Supreme Pontiff and the religious men and women who, executing the directives of the Holy Father, recognized the persecuted of their brothers and, with great abnegation, hastened to help them, disregarding the terrible dangers to which they were exposed.”

At Pope Pius XII death in 1958, Golda Meir sent an eloquent message: “We share in the grief of humanity. When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace.” Like these heroic witnesses of the Holocaust we must all respond openly and seek the ideal of sainthood, regardless of our different races, religions and ethnic backgrounds. We must have love for one another, hope in the integrity of future generations, and faith in the Almighty Father of us all.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0004.html

That museum needs to take down that slanderous banner.

[chase19]

“The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas..He is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all”. (Editorial, the New York Times, Dec 25, 1941).

“A full explanation of Pope Pius’ conduct is needed..It now falls to John Paul and his successors to take the next step toward full acceptance of the Vatican’s failure to stand squarely against the evil that swept across Europe” (Editorial, the New York Times, Mar 18, 1998).
http://www.al-bushra.org/vatican/indefense.htm

New York Times and Revisionism.

Albert Einstein: “Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty”

Jewish historian Rabbi David Dalin of New York: “Pius saved more Jews than even Oscar Schindler”.

Most of the accusations of our saintly Pope Pius can be traced to a single originating source: “The Deputy”, by Rolf Hochhuth’s 1963 play that created an image of Pius as a moral coward.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Reading your posts, I think I have found the first issue on which we agree profoundly.

There had to be at least one, right?

Hey, miracles happen. And it's almost Purim.

[BroJoeK]

"Many righteous people who saved Jews from the Holocaust have a tree planted in their name at Yad Vashem. In a just and honest world, Pius XII would need a forest to pay him tribute. 860,000"

I've never seen that number 860,000 before, and would be curious to learn where it comes from.

Remember, of Europe's pre-war nine million Jews, three million survived the war, but those included Jews who lived in or escaped to places like Spain, Britain and the eastern Soviet Union.

Within Nazi controlled Europe, the total numbers of Jewish survivors was much smaller -- France: 275,000 Italy: 33,000 Germany: 80,000 Poland: 50,000 Netherlands: 20,000. That's less than half a million total.

In Eastern Europe, Romania, Hungary and Czechoslovakia totaled 675,000 survivors.

So, how many of these is it said that Pius XII saved, and what exactly did he do to save them?

Remember, the criticism of Pius XII is not that he did nothing to oppose Nazism, but rather that he did not do as much as he could have, or should have.

Contrast this with the Vatican's strong opposition to Stalin's Communism. For example, the Vatican declared Communism incompatible with membership in the Catholic Church. It never made such a declaration against Hitler's Nazis.

[BroJoeK]

"“The Holy Father wishes to save his children, the Jews as well, and orders that the Monasteries provide hospitality to these persecuted people,” the November 1943 note reads"

Let us please, please remember that by November 1943 at least two thirds of the Jews who were going to die at the hands of Nazis were ALREADY DEAD.

This note from Pius XII should be seen as a pathetically weak, late, quiet and ineffective response to a monstrous evil which had already murdered many millions, while the Vatican said little or nothing.

[conservonator]

Contrast this with the Vatican's strong opposition to Stalin's Communism. For example, the Vatican declared Communism incompatible with membership in the Catholic Church. It never made such a declaration against Hitler's Nazis.

MIT BRENNENDER SORGE

[AnalogReigns]

Under the laws given to Moses by God for the theocracy of ancient Israel, MANY things (depending on the certain factors) were capitol crimes.

However, followers of Jesus in Christian societies—while we recognize the moral laws of the Torah (Love for God, and love for neighbor—summarized in the 10 Commandments) have NEVER made the laws of ancient Israel synonymous to the laws in our societies.

As far as I know, for slightly different reasons, since before the time of Christ anyway, neither have any Jewish groups as well.

Below find a list on what the Law of God to Moses—intended for ancient Israel—found to be death-penalty offenses:

Religious practices

* Sacrificing to gods other than God alone[1][2]
* Passing children through the fire to/as [MLK]. The triconsonantal root MLK has traditionally been translated as if it were the name of an otherwise unattested deity - Molech - but may just describe a type of sacrifice. It is generally thought that this refers to a form of Human sacrifice similar to that of which the Phoenicians (particularly in Carthage) have historically been widely accused[3]
* worshipping Baal Peor[4]
* False prophecy[5][6][7]
* Necromancy, according to the masoretic text; specifically those who are masters over ghosts (Hebrew: Ba’al ob) and those who gain information from the dead (Hebrew: Yidde’oni)[8]. The Septuagint instead condemns gastromancy (Greek: eggastrimuthos), and enchantment (Greek: epaoidos)[9].
* According to the masoretic text, practitioners of kashaph[10] - incanting maleficium. According to the Septuagint version of the same passages, pharmakeia[11] - poisoners. Historically this passage has been translated into english using vague terminology, condemning witchcraft in general[12].
* Blasphemy[13]
* Sabbath breaking[14][15][16]

Sexual practices

* Rape by a man of a betrothed woman in the countryside[17]
* Being either participant in urban sexual activity, in which a betrothed woman consensually loses her virginity to a man[18]
* Loss of virginity by a woman prior to marriage, to someone other than her husband[19]
* Adultery with a married woman[20]. Sexual activity between a married man and an unmarried woman was not forbidden[21].
* Marrying your wife’s mother[22]
* Certain forms of Incest, namely if it involves the father’s wife or a daughter-in-law[23]. Other forms of incest receive lesser punishment; sexual activity with a sister/step-sister is given excommunication for a punishment[24]; if it involves a brother’s wife or an uncle’s wife it is just cursed[25]; and sexual activity with an aunt that is a blood relation is merely criticised[26].
* Prostitution by the daughter of a priest[27]
* Male homosexual activity[32][33]
* Bestiality[34][35]

Miscellaneous

* Murder, applies to Noachides as well[36][37][38][39]
* Striking a parent[40]
* Cursing a parent[41][42]
* The “degenerate son”[43]
* Kidnapping[44][45]
* Negligent homicide, specifically by ox-goring[46]
* Contempt of court[47]
* False witness to a capital crime[48]

---

Even back to colonial days in America sodomy was not an absolute death-penalty offense. As a Christian, naturally I do accept that such activity is a sin—and socially not desireable—but a today should it be a capitol offense? No...sorry, as America (and every other country too) is not the theocracy of ancient Israel—for whom, 3500 years ago Moses wrote down the laws from God.

If you think we should make sodomy a death penalty crime again, would you make all the items above capitol offenses too? They were also capitol crimes in the Law of God given to Moses.

[GonzoII]

"It stretches credulity, however, to suggest that he was unaware of what was being carried out in his name."

Who is suggesting that?

[PAR35]

Who is suggesting that?

Certainly not you. It was added in self defense. Some folks take offense at historical facts and start pinging mods.

[GonzoII]

"This note from Pius XII should be seen as a pathetically weak, late, quiet and ineffective response to a monstrous evil which had already murdered many millions, while the Vatican said little or nothing."

For your information:

Post by: chase19

“The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas..He is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all”. (Editorial, the New York Times, Dec 25, 1941).

“A full explanation of Pope Pius’ conduct is needed..It now falls to John Paul and his successors to take the next step toward full acceptance of the Vatican’s failure to stand squarely against the evil that swept across Europe” (Editorial, the New York Times, Mar 18, 1998).
http://www.al-bushra.org/vatican/indefense.htm

New York Times and Revisionism.

Albert Einstein: “Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty”

Jewish historian Rabbi David Dalin of New York: “Pius saved more Jews than even Oscar Schindler”.

Most of the accusations of our saintly Pope Pius can be traced to a single originating source: “The Deputy”, by Rolf Hochhuth’s 1963 play that created an image of Pius as a moral coward.

Given at the Vatican on Passion Sunday, March 14, 1937. ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI ON THE CHURCH AND THE GERMAN REICH

MIT BRENNENDER SORGE

[Cronos]

which was the elimination of non aryan people, Jews as well as Slavs and Gypsies

The funny thing is that Slavs and Gypsies are both Aryan people (Indo-European).

[Cronos]

Do note that the holocaust of the Gypsies was, incredibly, even worse, in pure numbers and in barbarity, than the horrendous holocaust of the jewish peoples by the nazi slimes.

[Cronos]

Moreover, the Jewish People are at the very center of world history and this cannot be denied or changed. Since secularists cannot remove the Jewish People from the center of world history, they give this centrality a new interpretation which favors their ideology.

The Jews are at the center of everyone's worldview: traditional chr*stian, Biblicist chr*stian, moslem, Nazi, you name it. All are fixated on the Jews, for either good or ill.

err... no, not completely. While no one denies the faith handed down from Abraham came through the Jewish people, for billions in China, India and Africa, the religion of Abraham plays no central role. Secondarily, while the peoples of Judea play a defining role in Christianity and Islam and in anti-Jewish entites like the Nazis, they are not "at the very center of world history" -- Sumeria, Akkadia, Babylon, Assyria, Egypt, Axum, Armenia, Persia, Harappa, Parthia, Rome, Greece, Song-dynasty China, the Mongols, the Huns, Ming-dynasty China, the Ummayyads, the Seljuks etc. all play quite a central role in world history along with the Jewish peoples.

[Cronos]

I don't quite understand your position. No one in their sane minds could deny the horrendous nature of the Jewish Holocaust, where millions were brutalized, tormented and killed by Nazis, just because they were of Jewish heritage. That action has been and should always be condemned and should never be allowed to be repeated, while the evil ones who carried out those acts should be remembered and reviled forever.

However, how can you deny the Porajmos (the Gypsy holocaust)? The conditions for those poor people was as bad as, or in come cases (as in Lodz), worse. We must not forget those people while remembering the 6 million fallen.

You should not forget that the German idea of lebensraum in the east meant the extermination of Slavs (this shows how nonsensical the nazis were -- both the Slavs and the Gypsies are Aryanic/Indo-European people).

Furthermore, the entire post about "centrality", I did not like -- while no one denies the centrality of the Hebrew religion to 45 % of the world's population (Christians and Muslims) -- the remaining 50% do not have the worship of YHWH as central to their history or their present day lives. In historical terms too, Judea was hardly the center of great empires -- that distinction goes to Ashur, Nineveh, Babylon, Persepolis, Athens, Pergamum, Memphis, etc. --> in fact, the very FACT that Judea was a backwater of the Roman empire makes the triumph of Christianity even more inspiring -- that a humble carpenter from the backwaters of the Empire could spread a message that conquered it is fascinating.

[Cronos]

PAR is quite right — he’s just pointing out a historic quirk, like the other one that Hitler was a teetotaler and a vegetarian (which doesn’t mean that all teetotalers and vegetarians are sons of Satan.. :-P)

[Zionist Conspirator]

The Torah is eternal. All the offenses which required the death penalty still require the death penalty. Unfortunately, the Beit HaMiqdash still lies in ruins and there is no Sanhedrion in Lishkat HaGazit, so man cannot execute these judgments. That being the case, G-d Himself executes them.

I am unsure as to whether Noachide courts (which unfortunately do not exist) have the authority to execute the death penalty when there is no Beit HaMiqdash or Sanhedrion in Jerusalem. But capital offenses are still capital offenses, whether or not man is currently permitted to carry out the sentences.

There was a time when Jewish authorities, with the permission of the host government, were permitted to execute the death penalty on those Jews who (G-d forbid!) merited it. Unfortunately Jewish sovereignty in the Galut no longer exists. Needless to say, I personally would like to see it restored, with the authentic Rabbinate and Battei Din having civil authority over all Jews.

And once again, in Jewish/Noachide courts neither confessions nor circumstantial evidence are admissible. Only eyewitnesses (two in Jewish courts, one in Noachide courts) are admissible.

G-d is G-d. Most of the evils of recent millenia have been due to man trying to remake G-d in his own warped image.

[Zionist Conspirator]

My position is quite simple. To consider the deaths of all Hitler's victims as part of the "Holcaust" and then to accuse Jews and Israelis of "Holocaust denial" is a loaded, anti-Semitic phrase that doesn't belong here on FR.

I apologize for my lack of historical knowledge about the Gypsies. I had read that while some Gypsies (who are "Aryans," btw), were persecuted others were left alone.

The Jews are the center of history. This is an objective fact. Only Jewish history begins with the creation of the world. And among the nations only Israel is eternal. These are facts I had no role in creating. I merely acknowledge them.

[GonzoII]

"I apologize for my lack of historical knowledge about the Gypsies. I had read that while some Gypsies (who are "Aryans," btw), were persecuted others were left alone."

I followed some links Alamogirl sent me from this website www.holocaust-history.org (a great one for study)

This story is linked from there: The Gypsy "Final Solution" Copyright © The Jewish Week, 1997