In my church, the emphasis is on loyalty to Christ.
Ping
Not sure why I’m responding here. I don’t even know what the point is of this article. Are you a mormon?
I’ve got 5pm PST. Its just to note when this post gets pulled.
Since you asked: I never much cared for sermonizing and in my opinion, as far as going to “church” goes, nothing can ever be compared with the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist.
But,
Isn't this what Joseph Smith himself did?
Do not these words precisely condemn the man?
Is this not the great error of Mohammad?
The Gift of Prophesy is precise and unforgiving
When speaking in Voice, and Under Command
The mark of a False Prophet is that those words
1. Do not glorify the Lord and uplift his Children
2. Are not 100% TRUE, NO EXCEPTIONS, and in complete backward compatibility with previous revealed knowledge.
3. The False Prophet is stoned or cast into the outer darkness
Nope. We teach the Bible verse by verse, or expositionally. We aren't topically oriented. Since you asked.
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
In my church there’d be lots of Bible scriptures...
Dont see much in that “talk”
The mormon “missionaries” in England, in 1848 didnt bother with the Bible, either...
“Very little attention was paid to the subject by the conservators of religious truth. Despised, it was neglected; and because neglected, it continued to, grow. With little or no contradiction, and the little that was made, readily silenced by these men, they made themselves believed.
All that was known of Mormonism was known from their statements; positively thinking it something holier, purer and truer, it was embraced by hundreds. To fervently embrace a delusion, is to more sincerely believe it. They clothed it in the drapery of warm emotions; and good men, in their desires for something more exalted and God-like, viewed it through the distorted medium of their own wishes; not knowing it as it was, they thought it was what they hoped it to be. When they began to see the difference between their conception and the reality, many were too enmeshed to forsake it.”
John Hyde, 1857
The people who run for their lives fr4om mormponism, dont “apostasize”...They escape...
He brought me up out of the pit of destruction, out of the miry clay, And He set my feet upon a rock making my footsteps firm. Psalm 40:2
I can hardly wait for Sunday night when the next HBO series of BIG LOVE starts!
Well, that's interesting. Here Jos. Smith, religious proprietor, pleaded with the Kirtland saints to show "...perfect harmony, kind feeling, good understanding, and confidence" in their hearts along with "true charity."
But did Smith himself show harmony, kind feelings, and true charity toward the Kirtland Mormons?
Well, all you have to do is to examine Smith's Doctrine & Covenants' words toward them:
Example #1: According to Smith, he said the Kirtlanders were "wicked" in all manners of ways (D&C 98:19-20). (Not very uplifting or edifying)
Example #2: He addressed the Kirtlanders in 1831 and called them "terrible" (D&C 45:70). [Whoa! More compliments!]
Example #3: By the Spring of 1831, the Kirtlanders had "progressed" to "abominable" (D&C 54:20).
Example #4: By the end of 1833 (Dec. 16, 1833), perhaps as a Christmas "present," Smith was still lambasting the Kirtlander Mormons. This time, in D&C 101:1-2, he was blaming afflictions & persecution as being their fault -- because of their "transgressions."
Example #5: This article itself! Look at this quote: “If the Saints in Kirtland deem me unworthy of their prayers when they assemble together, and neglect to bear me up at the throne of heavenly grace, it is a strong and convincing proof to me that they have not the Spirit of God."
So. Smith pummels them in words & calls that "Scripture" forevermore...saying they were "wicked...terrible...abominable..." deserving of affliction & persecution because of their "transgressions" and then accused them of not having "the Spirit of God."
(And then he furthermore has the gall to say):
...“As long as my brethren stand by me and encourage me...
(Oh, sure, such "wonderful" compliments of your sheep "always" elicits wonderful "encouragement" as a response!)
Example #6 -- From the article: Woodruff quote (footnote #13): “When he arose he said, ‘I am still the President, Prophet, Seer, Revelator and Leader of the Church of Jesus Christ. God, and not man, has appointed and placed me in this position, and no man or set of men have power to remove me or appoint another in my stead, and those who undertake this, if they do not speedily repent, will burn their fingers and go to hell.’ He reproved the people sharply for their sins, darkness and unbelief..."
More compliments from Smith about his sheep...apparently Smith thought they were full of "sins, darkness and unbelief" and said if men who were internally against him didn't repent, he was going to send them "to hell." Imagine that. Joseph Smith claiming he had the power to personally send people to hell. Wow! What a god!
(Of course, if you want to side with Smith in his assessment of the Kirtland saints in all of the above as being just "so" -- then what does that say about the foundational Kirtland church of Mormons? What would that then say about these same Mormons who moved to Missouri and started many fights with the locals -- being the first to shed blood of the locals there?)
Catholics (and I suppose most other Christian denominations) are told to respond to an apostate spouse with love and evangelization and prayer, prayer and more prayer.
Mormons are told to get a divorce, and go for the house and kids. Well, OK, they’re not told to get a divorce, but they’re told it’s OK to get a divorce, and they’re told that if they don’t have a covenant marriage they won’t get all the blessings of the afterworld. So it’s an inevitable syllogism.
>> “The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy.” <<
THat’s too wierd of a quote for a Mormon to make, given that they believe that all of his people were led away and deceived by imposters for 1800 years, as the Church fell into complete domination by the enemy.
I mean, yes, I agree with the internal reasoning of the quote; that’s why I’m a Catholic
Brigham Young threatened: "I say, rather than that apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath my bowie knife and conquer or die. (Great commotion in the congregation, and a simultaneous burst of feeling, assenting to the declaration.) Now, you nasty apostates, clear out, or judgment will be put to the line, and righteousness to the plummet. (Voices, generally, 'go it, go it.') If you say it is right, raise your hands. (All hands up.) Let us call upon the Lord to assist us in this, and every good work" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p.83)
“In the year, 18323, being then thirty-one years old, Brigham Young) heard and embraced Mormonism. He was convinced by Elder Samuel H. Smith, brother to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, WHO HAS SINCE APOSTASIZED, and was baptized by Eleazar Miller, now at Salt Lake.” (Pp 136, 137)
“Accordingly, in 1835, on the 14th of February, at Kirtliand, Ohio, Brigham Young, then thirty-four years of age, was ordained one of the newly-organized quorum of the Twelve Apostles; he having been previously designated by a special revelation, that Smith pretended to obtain. Under the hands of the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon, ALL OF WHOM HAVE SUBSEQUENTLY APOSTASIZED, Brigham was ordained and set apart to his office.” (P 137)
“A new revelation was obtained, and Brigham was commanded to makle his home in this State of Missouri. Thomas B. Marsh, THE PRESIDENT OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES, HAD APOSTASIZED, finding Mormonism too bad a faith, or Smith too bad a Prophet.” (P 138)
“Orson Hyde, the present “PRESIDENT OF THE TWELVE,” HAD APOSTASIZED.” (P 139)
“W. W. Phelps, the present Mormon devil, almanac maker, “Brigham’s jester,” etc., had made affidavits against the Church. The Pratts were wavering; Dr. Arvard, a prominent member of the Danite band, had exposed the hidden machinery of Mormonism.” (P 139)(Can you say “apostasy” ???)
“Although it is, and always has been, Mormon policy that there should be but one head, and he the all in all of the Church; yet, in April, 1843, Brigham was possessed of influence sufficient to even grapple with Smith, as to the trustworthiness of the Twelve. Smith, who had trained Brigham, had to yield to the pupil he had educated.” (P 140) (Shades of APOSTASY)
“Brigham came hurriedly to Nauvoo-and now came the tug of war-convinced of his right to lead the people. O how easy it is to be convinced of what is to one’s interest! Hie called his quorum and the people together; ran Sidney Rigdon into the earth completely; broke up his organizations; denounced his revelations as from the devil; crushed his influence; cut off himself and adherents; cursed him; “handed him over to the buffetings of Satan for a thousand years,” and was chosen President by an overwhelming majority. Hie did not stay to reason with the minority, but cut them all off at once. The Church was going to ruin; a thousand divisions threatened to tear it piecemeal. Four claimants to Smith’s position appeared, and each had his followers among the people.” (P 141) (APOSTASY CITY)
(John Hyde, Mormonism: its leaders and designs, 1857, Pp 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141)