BEWARE THE BITTER FRUITS OF APOSTASY (LDS OPEN THREAD)

LDS Gospel Library Lessons ^

[Elsie]

...nothing can ever be compared with the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist.

It's WAY too early to turn this thread into a Prot vs Cath one!

[Elsie]

Is this not the great error of Mohammad?

Did SOMEone mention Mohammad?

---

 

 

 

 

 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1] 

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith’s followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith’s own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith’s claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith  & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[Elsie]

It's just a lesson from the LDS church.

"I don't KNOW that we teach this..."

[Elsie]

You will have to FReepmail me a synopsis...

Here ya go...

(Maybe it'll be MY night!!)

[Elsie]

 

So why do you care? I think there must be some revenge in it for you.

 

---

Jude 1:3

  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

---

---

Romans 6:17
   But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.

 

 Romans 15:4
   For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

1 Corinthians 11:1-2
 1.  Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

Ephesians 4:14
   Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
   In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

2 Timothy 2:2
  And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.

Hebrews 13:8-9
 8.  Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
 9.  Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them.

 

2 John 1:10
   If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

[Elsie]

Thin-skinned posters will be booted from “open” threads because in the town square, they are the disrupters. '

Yeah... Sure...

[Elsie]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45street/449284525/

[Elsie]

It's Super Crystal Ball!"

Nope: you need THIS!!

---

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi

[Elsie]

This thread get pulled yet? Just wondering.You have to TRY to start a flame war.

We anti's are going to be 'white and delightsome' to all INDIVIDUALS in this thread.

[Elsie]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

Thanks for a refreshing reminder.

[Elsie]

 

 

 

 

 Remember fellow Christians: 

the Mormon's criticize US because they've been taught that they CAN'T criticize ANY of their leaders; so they HAVE to vent somehow!

---

---

 

MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle/cult leader, from the PBS documentary, "The Mormons", declaring unequivocally:

"IT'S WRONG TO CRITICIZE LEADERS OF THE (MORMON)CHURCH, EVEN IF THE CRITICISM IS TRUE."

 

---

 

Don't criticize?

 

Dallin H. Oaks, Mormon Apostle

 

 

 

---

 

Oh, they can say that their leaders were NOT speaking for GOD when they said ___________ but that's NOT the same as criticizing!

[Elsie]

 

 

First NephiGod told Lehi to look at the  ball and read the words written upon it. And when he read the words "he did fear and tremble exceedingly." 16:26

The pointers on the ball work according to the faith of its user. 16:28

And the words written on the ball change according to the faith of its user. 16:29

So Nephi found his way to the top of the mountain by following the instructions that were written on the ball. 16:30

 

 

 

"It's better to know nothing than to know what ain't so."
--Josh Billings

[svcw]

Not yet. Only took a few hours before the admin was called in.

[greyfoxx39]

Your comment "I think there must be some revenge in it for you." is "making it personal".

From the rules, "On all threads, but particularly “open” threads, posters must never “make it personal.” Reading minds and attributing motives are forms of “making it personal.” Making a thread “about” another Freeper is “making it personal.”

Attributing a revenge motive is making it personal.

Perhaps you aren't a frequent visitor of the Religion Forum?

[greyfoxx39]

Sorry RM. I posted #54 before seeing your post #37.

[dangus]

Catholics (and I suppose most other Christian denominations) are told to respond to an apostate spouse with love and evangelization and prayer, prayer and more prayer.

Mormons are told to get a divorce, and go for the house and kids. Well, OK, they’re not told to get a divorce, but they’re told it’s OK to get a divorce, and they’re told that if they don’t have a covenant marriage they won’t get all the blessings of the afterworld. So it’s an inevitable syllogism.

[dangus]

>> “The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy.” <<

THat’s too wierd of a quote for a Mormon to make, given that they believe that all of his people were led away and deceived by imposters for 1800 years, as the Church fell into complete domination by the enemy.

I mean, yes, I agree with the internal reasoning of the quote; that’s why I’m a Catholic

[dangus]

>> You are an uber mormon basher. Kinda like the ex smokers that rail against tobacco. <<

So Mormonism is like a smoking addiction?

Hey, greyfoxx... I notice most anti-Catholic former Catholics on FR seem to know less about Catholicism than they could learn from watching “Nunsense.” It’s like they saw a lot of stuff they didn’t understand, and so they believe about Catholicism whatever their new brainwashers tell them.

[dangus]

>> You are an uber mormon basher. Kinda like the ex smokers that rail against tobacco. <<

So Mormonism is like a smoking addiction?

Hey, greyfoxx... I notice most anti-Catholic former Catholics on FR seem to know less about Catholicism than they could learn from watching “Nunsense.” It’s like they saw a lot of stuff they didn’t understand, and so they believe about Catholicism whatever their new brainwashers tell them.

(oops, hit return accidentally)

So, how active were you in the Mormon church?

[dangus]

>> and was paying attentions to a girl at Jersey, Channel Islands, <<

Pickin’ on the Jersey girls, again, Nana? ;^D