Posted on 01/15/2009 4:42:15 PM PST by greyfoxx39
Wilford Woodruff also said: “I remember Brother Joseph Smith visited myself, Brother [John] Taylor, Brother Brigham Young and several other missionaries, when we were about to take our mission to England.
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John Taylor, another Mormon Apostle, in a discussion held at Boulogne, France, in July 1850, was charged with the belief of this doctrine, to which accusation he thus replied: “ We are accused here of polygamy and actions the most indelicate, obscene and disgusting, such as none but a corrupt heart could have conceived. These things are too outrageous to be believed; therefore I shall content myself with reading our views of chastity and marriage, from a work published by us, containing some of the articles of our faith.”
He read in the Book of Smith’s Revelations, p. 330, the marriage covenant: “You both mutually agree to be each other’s companion, husband and wife; observing all the legal rights belonging to this condition; that is, keeping yourselves wholly for each other, and from all others during your lives!”
And on p.331: “Inasmuch as this Church of Jesus Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wfe, and one woman but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again!”
And again, on p. 124: “Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shall cleave unto her, and none else; and he that looketh on a woman to lust after her, shall deny the faith, and not have the spirit, and be cast out.” “There,” exclaimed Elder Taylor, triumphantly, “that is our doctrine on this subject” (Taylor’s Discussion at Boulogne, p. 8).
And this man had four wives wrangling and quarreling at Utah, and was paying attentions to a girl at Jersey, Channel Islands, at the very moment he uttered these willful, intentional falsehoods!
(John Hyde, Mormonism: its leaders and designs, 1857 Pp 14, 15)
But you are only persecuted by mormons, not non-mormons. So why do you care? I think there must be some revenge in it for you.
“If I had forty wives in the United States, they did not know it, and could not substantiate it, neither did I ask any lawyer, judge, or magistrate for them. I live above the law, and so do this people.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 361
You are new here????
LOL!!
What do you mean?
Beware the Bitter Fruits of Apostasy
LOL...been there, done that, came out the other side in a much better place - saved by the Grace of God!
On all threads, but particularly “open” threads, posters must never “make it personal.” Reading minds and attributing motives are forms of “making it personal.” Making a thread “about” another Freeper is “making it personal.”
When in doubt, review your use of the pronoun “you” before hitting “enter.”
Like the Smoky Backroom, the conversation may be offensive to some.
Thin-skinned posters will be booted from “open” threads because in the town square, they are the disrupters. '
Utah was not part of the United States...
Brigham Young cared less about what anyone thought of his behavior...
Mormons, Utahns, “Americans” Europeans...
He was above the law...
He WAS the law...
He was “god”
In the 1850s he packed Utah with foreigners...
That he could control easier than “Americans” from the “United States”...
Most of the “Americans” were his cutthroat cohorts...
“There are about 15,000 inhabitants at Salt Lake City. They consist of a very few Americans, and the large majority English and Scotch; very many Welsh, and numerous Danes.
I think certainly not one third of the whole would embrace all the Americans in the city, and not one fourth of the whole in the entire Territory.
These are principally from the western borders of the States. They have all the power in their hands, fill all the offices, ecclesiastical and civil, and receive all the emoluments. THEY ARE ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION POLYGAMISTS, and are singularly full of prejudice, intolerance, and boasted fidelity to Mormonism.”
(John Hyde, Mormonism: its leaders and designs, 1857 P 33)
Here’s an interesting bit...
Did Smith have illegitimate children ???
This “70” seemed to think so...
“I will instance polygamy. This was practiced by Smith in 1838, and the Mormon Apostles KNEW IT. Yet, when the Church was charged with its adoption, Parley P. Pratt, in Manbchester, England, before the general conference of the European churches, and in the Millennial Star of 1846, thus publicly denounced it:
“Such a doctrine is not held, known, or practiced as a principle of the Latter-day Saints. It is but another name for whoredom; and is as foreign friom the real principles of the Church, as the devil is from God; or as sectarianism is from Christianity” (Millennial Star, vol. vi., p. 22).
And yet this man knew that Smith and others had children living WHO WERE THE OFFSPRING OF THIS VERY PRACTICE! “
(John Hyde, Mormonism: its leaders and designs, 1857 P 14)
What’s your point? I’m not thinned skinned. if anything I’m too thick skinned. I havn’t taken offense at anything you’ve posted.
Why are you so defensive?
gf,
how do you get to the “Smoky Backroom” anyway? Is there a link to go check out what’s there?
ampu
Wow! You ought to patent & market your online crystal ball. Why it's so clear you can gauge every internal motivation of other posters.
Here, allow me to help you with a marketing tag you can use: "Do you have you very own personal Online Super Crystal Ball? Able to judge deep hearts in a single glance! Faster than a locomotive to determine motives! More powerful than a omniscient god! Look! Up in the mamelukesabre! It's Super Crystal Ball!"
OK, here’s the link http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/backroom-forum/index
Sorry to interrupt this thread!
Anytime you make a personal attack such as
So why do you care? I think there must be some revenge in it for you.
Tends to step over the line - hence you should read the rules that RM posted - should you desire to continue to post to these threads.
This thread get pulled yet? Just wondering.
Well, that's interesting. Here Jos. Smith, religious proprietor, pleaded with the Kirtland saints to show "...perfect harmony, kind feeling, good understanding, and confidence" in their hearts along with "true charity."
But did Smith himself show harmony, kind feelings, and true charity toward the Kirtland Mormons?
Well, all you have to do is to examine Smith's Doctrine & Covenants' words toward them:
Example #1: According to Smith, he said the Kirtlanders were "wicked" in all manners of ways (D&C 98:19-20). (Not very uplifting or edifying)
Example #2: He addressed the Kirtlanders in 1831 and called them "terrible" (D&C 45:70). [Whoa! More compliments!]
Example #3: By the Spring of 1831, the Kirtlanders had "progressed" to "abominable" (D&C 54:20).
Example #4: By the end of 1833 (Dec. 16, 1833), perhaps as a Christmas "present," Smith was still lambasting the Kirtlander Mormons. This time, in D&C 101:1-2, he was blaming afflictions & persecution as being their fault -- because of their "transgressions."
Example #5: This article itself! Look at this quote: “If the Saints in Kirtland deem me unworthy of their prayers when they assemble together, and neglect to bear me up at the throne of heavenly grace, it is a strong and convincing proof to me that they have not the Spirit of God."
So. Smith pummels them in words & calls that "Scripture" forevermore...saying they were "wicked...terrible...abominable..." deserving of affliction & persecution because of their "transgressions" and then accused them of not having "the Spirit of God."
(And then he furthermore has the gall to say):
...“As long as my brethren stand by me and encourage me...
(Oh, sure, such "wonderful" compliments of your sheep "always" elicits wonderful "encouragement" as a response!)
Example #6 -- From the article: Woodruff quote (footnote #13): “When he arose he said, ‘I am still the President, Prophet, Seer, Revelator and Leader of the Church of Jesus Christ. God, and not man, has appointed and placed me in this position, and no man or set of men have power to remove me or appoint another in my stead, and those who undertake this, if they do not speedily repent, will burn their fingers and go to hell.’ He reproved the people sharply for their sins, darkness and unbelief..."
More compliments from Smith about his sheep...apparently Smith thought they were full of "sins, darkness and unbelief" and said if men who were internally against him didn't repent, he was going to send them "to hell." Imagine that. Joseph Smith claiming he had the power to personally send people to hell. Wow! What a god!
(Of course, if you want to side with Smith in his assessment of the Kirtland saints in all of the above as being just "so" -- then what does that say about the foundational Kirtland church of Mormons? What would that then say about these same Mormons who moved to Missouri and started many fights with the locals -- being the first to shed blood of the locals there?)
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
You could be a Living Prophet!
"I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it ... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don’t know a lot about it, and I don’t think others know a lot about it."
Oh yea of little faith.
MORMONS (as a group) can be shown for what they are - only INDIVIDUAL Freepers can't be caused any pain here in Free Republic.
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