Posted on 10/06/2008 12:11:40 PM PDT by TaraP
No, I mean Israel and its practice of the Old Covenant at the Temple.
The temple was destroyed in 70 A.D..the Jews were scattered Diaspora...
Yep. Exactly as prophesied in Daniel, Revelation, Matthew, and throughout much of the Bible.
So what are you saying?
I'm saying the "end" you're looking for happened in 70 AD. The prophecies were covenental in nature, not apocalyptic in the sense that you think. The "New Heaven and New Earth" is the New Covenant - what we call Christianity. The Old Heaven and Old Earth - the old way of God relating to Man, exemplified by sacrifices in the Temple - died forever at that time, and the New Covenant came fully into being, after a roughly 40-year transitional period.
What else do you think Jesus meant in Matthew 24:34 when, while discussing the "signs of the end," he says, "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." (NIV)
Either Jesus didn't mean what he plainly said, or he was wrong, or those things *did* happen in that generation.
I’m not a dispensationalist but if it’s true, I wonder who the Antichrist will be...
Good one. Not too many preterists around so I generally lay low on that!
You were asking the other poster — “How can you possibly KNOW Falwell was wrong?”
Well, xjcsa says that because Falwell is not a “Preterist” (but is a “Futurist”). And also, xjcsa does not believe that the nation of Israel is prophetically significant in these present days (as Falwell does [or “did”, before he died]).
His comments make sense in the “interpretive angle” of Preterism, you see...
You can go to the website of http://www.pre-trib.org/ to see more information and a debate between the positions of Preterism and Futurism.
The Buzz is..SARKOZY...But I don’t think he is either...
He might be on scene, but he has not been revealed IMO...
Actually, it goes back much further. St. Augustine thought the world was in a perpetual decline during his lifetime. And there have been hundreds of kooks throughout the ages making this type of prediction. For some reason, the last 100 years have produced a lot of theologians predicing this.
Bush’s fault.
BLOAT.
So then who is the Antichrist spoken about in the Bible?
When does Jesus come to take the SIN out of the world and defeat the evil one?
By what you said..Jesus was only concerned with the folks of his generation...
You said — “The article does state End Time Events from the Bible...”
Well, if the Reverend Sun Myung Moon were stating “End Time Events from the Bible” I would never quote him in an article he wrote. That would be directing someone to a questionable source in regards to “commentary” on the Bible. That’s totally irresponsible!
Likewise, this guy (the author of the article above) is quoting some “Reverend” that I cannot even verify if he exists. I believe this author made up (totally) this fake reverend and says that Billy Graham quoted this reverend (i.e., the author is “name-dropping” in the process of writing his article).
On top of that, the author is trying to sell some health products on his website and is obviously using contentious topics and articles and information to *drive* web traffic to his site — and hopefully “sucker in” people to buy those products. It doesn’t even appear that this author is interested — at all — in Biblical Prophecy, other than for “web driving traffic”.
And then you say — “They are not from the Koran or Harry Potter my friend...”
So, you’re saying that if an author can create a fictitious “reverend” and put out an article (falsely saying that he is) quoting this so-called reverend — that it’s okay to mix *lies* with the “truth of the Bible” — in one article??
AND, as long as some preacher is saying “true things” about the Bible, it’s also okay if he is an aldulterer and a liar and a thief (as long as he’s saying what the Bible says... LOL...).
Oh, Tara, Tara, Tara... (if I can call you that...)
You’ll just go around and around with a Preterist and never get anywhere. Just listen to one of the main Preterists debating with Tommy Ice, at the following website...
Save yourself the time and trouble. I can only hope and pray that the Preterist is saved (accepts Jesus Christ as Savior and as Messiah of Israel). It’s a good thing people are not saved by their theology on End Times Events (although if they get it wrong there, it does screw up their head, especially if they are a Preterist... LOL...).
I’m a “Futurist” by the way..., as you can see from my Home Page on Free Republic.
You're critical of me for not laying out my beliefs before I enter this discussion (worried that people won't be aware of my bias), yet you point people to pre-trib.org to learn about Preterism?
Anyway if people want to hear what Preterism is about (rather than the caricature offered at pre-trib.org), they can try here.
Nero.
When does Jesus come to take the SIN out of the world and defeat the evil one?
He has completed the work He came to do. The evil one is indeed defeated.
By what you said..Jesus was only concerned with the folks of his generation...
Not exactly, but it was that generation to which he was speaking, and whom the prophecies directly impacted.
Next thing you know you'll be questioning my salvation.
I can only hope and pray that the Preterist is saved (accepts Jesus Christ as Savior and as Messiah of Israel).
Oh.
It’s a good thing people are not saved by their theology on End Times Events (although if they get it wrong there, it does screw up their head, especially if they are a Preterist... LOL...).
Lots of people would be in trouble if that were the case. Fortunately, as the great Jerry Falwell often said, this is one of those issues we can have a friendly talk about around the dinner table, without implying someone's going to hell. Oh wait...
I’m a “Futurist” by the way..., as you can see from my Home Page on Free Republic.
No kidding :)
“only chuck Norris can divide by zero”
When Chuck Norris does a push up, he doesn’t lift himself up, he pushes the earth down....:)
You said — “You’re critical of me for not laying out my beliefs before I enter this discussion (worried that people won’t be aware of my bias), yet you point people to pre-trib.org to learn about Preterism?”
No, I wasn’t critical for not “laying out your beliefs” — but rather not simply stating (in some way or fashion) that this was your position. You could say somthing as simple as “from the Preterist position...” and that would be sufficient. Nothing more would be needed.
You’ll see that I’ve stated my position, up front, in my Home Page. All one has to do is simply click on my name and they go immediately to a statement to that effect (and it’s without any kind of explanation, you’ll note). I’m not teaching anything on that home page, but rather simply stating a position that I come from.
As far as me pointing them over to that website that I referenced, I never said that this was the place to learn about Preterism. I was referring people over to a debate (on that website) in which one could hear both sides debating the issue of Preterism vs. Futurism.
It’s also very clear that the Preterist’s position on Israel would be “anathema” to many of the Christians who do support Israel because of its current-day prophetic relevance. While there other Christians (besides Preterists) who deny the relevance of Israel prophetically, today — the Christians who do support Israel castigate those other Christians (for their very negative view of Israel, prophetically) as much as they do the Preterist’s position on Israel.
I just know that there’s nothing worth hearing from a Preterist like DeMar...
Fair enough, I guess.
It’s also very clear that the Preterist’s position on Israel would be “anathema” to many of the Christians who do support Israel because of its current-day prophetic relevance.
Either it's true or it's not, implications notwithstanding. Wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.
While there other Christians (besides Preterists) who deny the relevance of Israel prophetically, today — the Christians who do support Israel castigate those other Christians (for their very negative view of Israel, prophetically) as much as they do the Preterist’s position on Israel.
I don't have a "very negative view of Israel, prophetically," any more than I have a "very negative view" of Argentina, prophetically. Israel deserves our support, but it's because they're a key, brave ally in a volatile region and an island of freedom in a sea of tyranny, not because of any beliefs about prophecy.
I just know that there’s nothing worth hearing from a Preterist like DeMar...
That's true, if your mind is made up and you're not interested in other opinions. In that case I could say the same of LaHaye, for example.
You said — “That’s true, if your mind is made up and you’re not interested in other opinions. In that case I could say the same of LaHaye, for example.”
And that’s okay, too, if you want that (in regards to LaHaye). For myself, I don’t care too much for LaHaye. I never have read any of his books. I pretty much read other teachers/preachers/pastors, etc.
Tommy Ice (even though he references LaHaye on his website) is one of those that I do read. And, if you look through the list of articles, you’ll see other authors there, too. I read some of those, too.
But, for the most part, I have never seen, from my own reading of the Bible, that it, in any way, supports the Preterist position of all those prophecies being fulfilled many years ago and that Israel is not prophetically significant today. That’s never been the way I get what the Bible says from a plain and direct reading of it, with my own eyes. I read — directly and plainly — that Jesus Christ is returning, will set up His Kingdom on earth for that 1,000 years (as stated in Revelation) and He will rule, as an earthly King and with an earthly Kingdom, right here on this earth over the nations of the earth — the ones that we see here today. That’s what I see from reading the Bible.
One other note about this comment - I notice you don't castigate anyone else for discussing this topic without saying, "from the Futurist perspective" or a similar disclaimer. Interesting.
All of it was in the future at the time it was written.
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