Posted on 09/22/2008 8:07:20 AM PDT by topcat54
——You said, “Doesn’t make sense, since human giants, known as the Nephilim were alive both in Joshua’s day and in David’s, and who knows until when.”
Sorry to give you so much to read, but here’s the Appendix that addresses your statement. ——
25. THE NEPHILIM, OR “GIANTS”
Of GEN. 6, &c.
The progeny of the fallen angels with the daughters of Adam (see notes on Gen. 6, and Ap. 23) are called in Gen. 6, Ne-phil-im, which means fallen ones (from naphal, to fall). What these beings were can be gathered only from Scripture. They were evidently great in size, as well as great in wickedness. They were superhuman, abnormal beings; and their destruction was necessary for the preservation of the human race, and for the faithfulness of Jehovah’s Word (Gen. 3:15).
This was why the Flood was brought “upon the world of the ungodly” (2Pet. 2:5) as prophesied by Enoch (Jude 14).
But we read of the Nephilim again in Num. 13:33 : “there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come of the Nephilim”. How, it may be asked, could this be, if they were all destroyed in the Flood? The answer is contained in Gen. 6:4, where we read : “There were Nephilim in the earth in those days (i.e. in the days of Noah); and also AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became [the] mighty men (Heb. gibbor, the heroes) which were of old, men of renown” (lit. men of the name, i.e. who got a name and were renowned for their ungodliness).
So that “after that”, i.e. after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as “the nations of Canaan”. It was for the destruction of these, that the sword of Israel was necessary, as the Flood had been before.
As to the date of this second irruption, it was evidently soon after it became known that the seed was to come through Abraham; for, when he came out from Haran (Gen. 12:6) and entered Canaan, the significant fact is stated : “The Canaanite was then (i.e. already) in the land.” And in Gen. 14:5 they were already known as “Raphain” and Emim”, and had established themselves at Asteroth Karnaim and Shaven Kiriathaim.
In ch. 15:18-21 they are enumerated and named among Canaanite Peoples : “Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites” (Gen. 15:19-21; cp. Ex. 3:8, 17; 23:23. Deut. 7; 20:17. Josh. 12:8).
These were to be cut off, and driven out, and utterly destroyed (Deut. 20:17. Josh. 3:10). But Israel failed in this (Josh. 13:13; 15:63; 16:10; 17:18. Judg. 1:19, 20, 28, 29, 30-36; 2:1-5; 3:1-7); and we known not how many got away to other countries to escape the general destruction. If this were recognized it would go far to solve many problems connected with Anthropology.
As to their other names, they were called Anakim, from on Anak which came of the Nephilim (Num. 13:23), and Rephaim, from Rapha, another notable one among them. From Deut. 2:10, they were known by some as Emim, and Horim, and Zamzummim (v. 20, 21) and Avim, &c.
As Rephaim they were well known, and are often mentioned : but, unfortunately, instead of this, their proper name, being preserved, it is variously translated as “dead”, “deceased”, or “giants”. These Rephaim are to have no resurrection. This fact is stated in Isa. 26:14 (where the proper name is rendered “deceased,” and v. 19, where it is rendered “the dead”). It is rendered “dead” seven times (Job 26:5. Ps. 88:10. Prov. 2:18; 9:18; 21:16. Isa. 14:8; 26:19). It is rendered “deceased” in Isa. 26:14.
It is retained as a proper name “Rephaim” ten times (two being in the margin). Gen. 14:5; 15:20. Josh. 12:15 (marg.). 2Sam. 5:18, 22; 23:13.& b31 nbsp; 1Chron. 11:15; 14:9; 20:4 (marg.). Isa. 17:5. In all other places it is rendered “giants”, Gen. 6:4; Num. 23:33, where it is Nephilim; and Job 16:14, where it is gibbor (Ap. 14. iv). By reading all these passages the Bible student may know all that can be known about these beings.
It is certain that the second irruption took place before Gen. 14, for there the Rephaim were mixed up with the five nations or peoples, which included Sodom and Gomorrha, and were defeated by the four kings under Chedorlaomer. Their principal locality was evidently “Ashtaroth Karnaim”; while the Emim were in the plain of Kiriathaim (Gen. 14:5).
Anak was a noted descendant of the Nephilim; and Rapha was another, giving their names respectively to different clans. Anak’s father was Arba, the original builder of Hebron (Gen. 35:27. Josh. 15:13; 21:11); and this Palestine branch of the Anakim was not called Arbahim after him, but Anakim after Anak. They were great, mighty, and tall (Deut. 2:10, 11, 21, 22, 23; 9:2), evidently inspiring the ten spies with great fear (Num. 13:33). Og king of Bashan is described in Deut. 3:11.
Their strength is seen in “the giant cities of Bashan” to-day; and we know not how far they may have been utilized by Egypt in the construction of buildings, which is still an unsolved problem. Arba was rebuilt by the Khabiri or confederates seven years before Zoan was built by the Egyptian Pharoahs of the nineteenth dynasty. See note on Num. 13:22.
If these Nephilim, and their branch of Rephaim, were associated with Egypt, we have an explanation of the problem which has for ages perplexed all engineers, as to how those huge stones and monuments were brought together. Why not in Egypt as well as in “the giant cities of Bashan” which exist, as such, to this day?
Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the “men of renown,” the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the “heroes” of Gen. 6:4. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks.
Thus the Babylonian “Creation Tablets”, the Egyptian “Book of the dead”, the Greek mythology, and heathen Cosmogonies, which by some are set on an equality with Scripture, or by others adduced in support of it, are all the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorted in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.
"Giants" or men of renown happen along in history, George Washington was a "giant", but so was Hitler. They can be extremely wicked men, which was the crime that God had against them.
Again, Joshua was "a fallen one". The term clearly does not always mean a wicked fallen angel.
Bullinger is rolling in his grave with you saying that. ; ) He was kind of a stickler about such things.
Thanks for the discourse...very interesting subject.
OK?
>>>Fallen angels cannot procreate with humans, as they are spirits.<<<
But what about the angel that slew 10,000 men?
he did so in a material world, therefore he was able interact in this natural sense.
If that is so, then angels, fallen, or not ARE able to interact in the material world.
>>>The giants were the Nephilim , see Numbers 13:33, an actual race of men.<<<
You made the point where in Gen 6 it states that they were there in those days and “also afterward”
>>>The sons of God were the God-fearing descendents of Seth, while the daughters of men are the iniquitous descendents of Cain....Noah was “perfect in his generations” as he was the most righteous man among all the evil ones.<<<
Why wasn’t noah part of the alleged “iniquitous descendents of Cain” too?
Your logic is weak.
“perfect in his generations” is a clear Hebrew statement of “undefiled lineage”.
Men are subject to the natural inclination of evil and their hearts are evil continuously. It was the great wickedness of men that caused their demise. Noah descended from Seth not Cain, and the sons of Seth were God fearing.
The point is, believers are the seed of Christ and the seed of Abraham. Evil doers and unbelievers are the seed of the devil. Nothing physical about it
Aproximately what percentage of the Bibe do you believe to be NOT allegorical?
You assert that with a conviction that is at odds with what is verifiably knowable.
Your opinion.
Perhaps GSC is making the assertion that, since the Holy Spirit came over Mary, that angels can do the same with any woman.
I wonder if he will figure out what it wrong with it before it has to be pointed out to him.
The Holy Spirit coming over Mary has nothing to do with sex. He did not have sex with Mary. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit is not an angel. Angels were created by God. The Holy Spirit is eternal.
Angels cannot have sex with anyone, nor can the Holy Spirit, for they are spirits. Furthermore, Jesus said that angels don’t marry (Matt. 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:35,36). If angels can’t marry, they can’t have children.
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