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No 'Yahweh' in songs, prayers at Catholic Masses, Vatican rules (more detailed info)
CNS ^ | August 12, 2008 | Nancy Frazier O'Brien

Posted on 08/12/2008 1:40:53 PM PDT by NYer

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To: NYer
The YHWH tetragram (which the English transliteration is Yahweh) is all we really know about the name of God, and was never really meant to be pronounced without the vowels inferred into the Hebrew text. "Jehovah" is a misvoweled amalgamation of Adonai and YHWH. Whatever vowels were supposed to be in YHWH, they have been forever lost.
When the Masorites, the rabbinical editors of the Hebrew Bible during the ninth century A.D, provided vocalization signs to the four consonants of the tetragram, they indicated that Yahweh should always be pronounced Adonai. This led to the longstanding misconception that the divine name was to be pronounced "Jehovah," a misunderstanding produced by the addition of the vowels of 'adonai to the consonants of the tetragram yhwh.
From The Westminster Theological Wordbook of the Bible By Donald E. Gowan
41 posted on 08/12/2008 2:37:57 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: netmilsmom

Thanks...I’ll bring it up with the pastor. And I will continue to say “MEN” to be rebellious. ;)


42 posted on 08/12/2008 2:41:48 PM PDT by Miss Didi ("Good heavens, woman, this is a war not a garden party!" Dr. Meade, Gone with the Wind)
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To: isrul
"The impression arose that there was only 'active participation' when there was discernible external activity -- speaking, singing, preaching, reading, shaking hands. It was forgotten that the Council also included silence under actuosa participatio, for silence facilitates a really deep, personal participation, allowing us to listen inwardly to the Lord's word." - Cardinal Ratzinger, 1985.
43 posted on 08/12/2008 2:45:47 PM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: NYer

THe use of Yahweh, sorry to say, reminds me of the ridiculous, hippy folk mass with the guitars and tamborines I always disliked as a kid in the 1970’s. Let’s get back to Latin.


44 posted on 08/12/2008 2:45:54 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: MeanWestTexan

Jesus says it too.

“Our Father who is in heaven, Holy is your name.”


45 posted on 08/12/2008 2:45:59 PM PDT by Varda
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To: irishjuggler

Excellent! Is there any doubt that we have been blessed with Pope Benedict? :)


46 posted on 08/12/2008 2:47:48 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

“The bornagains”? So Roman Catholics aren’t born again as Christ said we must be in John 3:7? I haven’t seen even the most strident of Protestants on this board make that claim. ;-)

Anyhow, the use of “Jehovah” always irked me, seeing as it’s a false, butchered substitute for God’s name. We’ve replaced it with Yahweh in a couple of songs at my church.


47 posted on 08/12/2008 2:48:29 PM PDT by Dan Middleton
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To: Dan Middleton

oh please.


48 posted on 08/12/2008 2:52:57 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: Varda

“Jesus says it too.”

Well, according the the Book of Hebrews, Jesus supplanted the high priest (my ancestors) by being of the order of Melchizdeck (both king and priest) and, in fact, referred to his body as the Temple.

Given that the only person who could speak this particular familiar name of God was the High Priest in the Temple, if one believes Jesus is the Messiah as claimed, he would have the right to use that name of God.

But for common folk, using that name is getting “above one’s station” so to speak.

Just my opinion.


49 posted on 08/12/2008 2:53:47 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan ("Jesse Jackson was an important figure; paving the way for Osama bin Laden to appear" -- Dan Rather)
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To: Radl

If what is said is determined by what offends the Jews, then there is much in the Bible that would need to be removed.

(Mat 27:24-25) “When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. {25} Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.”

(1 Th 2:16) “Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.”

Of course, the Bible also teaches that they are covenantally beloved for the father’s sake (Rm. 11). And that the most manifest apostle was so heavily burdened for them they he was willing to be damned if it meant their salvation (Rm. 9:3).

If a change were based upon it’s doubt as a proper translation of the sacred tetragrammaton*, one might be tempted to remove Jehovah as well, seeing as the letter “J” was unknown till the 11th century or so (or so i read).

And then there is the controversy by some (mostly elitists) even over the name Jesus.

But i know God answers prayer in that name above all names, and sanctions translations into other languages, and looks at the heart and who the soul is directing prayer to (which was always to God in Heaven), than whether one uses God, Yaweh, Jehovah, Y’shua or Jesus. To pray in the name of Jesus is not that of appending His name at the end of a prayer, but to pray consistent with His heart and will, in truth. Which i often fail to do as i should

(Isa 66:2b) “but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.”

*YHWH. Ancient Hebrew had no written vowels, or superscript/subscript vowel markings.


50 posted on 08/12/2008 2:54:28 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Give your sins and life to Him who died your us and rose again. Jesus is Lord.)
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To: daniel1212

No spaces either, right?

I find the idea amazing.


51 posted on 08/12/2008 2:57:10 PM PDT by Petronski (The God of Life will condemn the Chinese government. Laogai means GULAG.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
I ask you because I believe we share mutual respect, and I mean that respect:

The Tetragrammaton should not be pronounced by a commoner like me, but "pseudonyms" like "Lord" and "God" do not represent such an offense.

Is that accurate?

52 posted on 08/12/2008 3:00:00 PM PDT by Petronski (The God of Life will condemn the Chinese government. Laogai means GULAG.)
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To: Dan Middleton
So Roman Catholics aren’t born again as Christ said we must be in John 3:7? I haven’t seen even the most strident of Protestants on this board make that claim. ;-)

It's OK. Protestants have been twisting other people's words for half a millenia.

53 posted on 08/12/2008 3:00:40 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: Petronski

Saved paper. We’re an economical people.


54 posted on 08/12/2008 3:01:29 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan ("Jesse Jackson was an important figure; paving the way for Osama bin Laden to appear" -- Dan Rather)
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To: the invisib1e hand

millenium.


55 posted on 08/12/2008 3:03:25 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: MeanWestTexan

I’m amazed at first glance that it can all be parsed properly. Of course, with His help, it’s a piece of cake.


56 posted on 08/12/2008 3:04:12 PM PDT by Petronski (The God of Life will condemn the Chinese government. Laogai means GULAG.)
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To: irishjuggler
No disagreement with that.
57 posted on 08/12/2008 3:04:52 PM PDT by isrul (Help make every day, "Disrespect a muzzie day.")
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To: MeanWestTexan
Saved paper. We’re an economical people.

LOL! True! I think Hebrew might have invented the acronym -- I guess actually they're abbreviations, but so many have their own pronunciation. There is a whole dictionary of Hebrew abbreviations; I had a course in Hebrew on lexicography, and the professor brought it in to show us.

58 posted on 08/12/2008 3:05:54 PM PDT by maryz
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To: Petronski

“The Tetragrammaton should not be pronounced by a commoner like me, but “pseudonyms” like “Lord” and “God” do not represent such an offense. Is that accurate?”

Absolutely correct. Indeed, NO ONE outside the Temple should be saying it.

On a related note, you will see God written “G-d” outside of scripture because it is against the Law (realy more implied, but clear) to destroy the the name of “God” -— the idea being that the casual writing of His name could lead to accidental destruction. Bit of an affectation, IMHO, which I sometimes tend towards.


59 posted on 08/12/2008 3:07:12 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan ("Jesse Jackson was an important figure; paving the way for Osama bin Laden to appear" -- Dan Rather)
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To: MeanWestTexan

But if I use the term Lord or God, fully spelled, would this be offensive?


60 posted on 08/12/2008 3:11:11 PM PDT by Petronski (The God of Life will condemn the Chinese government. Laogai means GULAG.)
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