Posted on 06/04/2008 6:57:23 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
In the weeks before and after the completion of the Kirtland Temple in the spring of 1836, the Saints experienced a time of harmony and a rich outpouring of the gifts of the Spirit. But the Prophet Joseph Smith warned the Saints that if they did not continue to live righteously, their joy and unity would not last. Daniel Tyler said of this time: “All felt that they had a foretaste of heaven. In fact, there were several weeks in which we were not tempted of the devil; and we wondered whether the millennium had commenced. At [a meeting of priesthood brethren], the Prophet Joseph addressed us. Among other things he said: ‘Brethren, for some time Satan has not had power to tempt you. Some have thought that there would be no more temptation. But the opposite will come; and unless you draw near to the Lord you will be overcome and apostatize.’ ”
As that year wore on, a spirit of apostasy grew among some of the Saints in Kirtland. Some members became proud, greedy, and disobedient to the commandments. Some blamed Church leaders for economic problems caused by the failure of a Kirtland financial institution established by Church members. This failure occurred in 1837, the same year that a banking panic swept across the United States, compounding the Saints’ economic problems. As many as two or three hundred members fell away from the Church in Kirtland, sometimes joining with those who opposed the Church to torment and even physically threaten the Saints. Some apostates openly claimed that the Prophet was fallen and tried to have other men put in his place. Sister Eliza R. Snow recalled: “Many who had been humble and faithful to the performance of every duty—ready to go and come at every call of the Priesthood—were getting haughty in their spirits, and lifted up in the pride of their hearts. As the Saints drank in the love and spirit of the world, the Spirit of the Lord withdrew from their hearts.”
Of the Church’s situation in May 1837, the Prophet lamented: “It seemed as though all the powers of earth and hell were combining their influence in an especial manner to overthrow the Church at once. … The enemy abroad, and apostates in our midst, united in their schemes, … and many became disaffected toward me as though I were the sole cause of those very evils I was most strenuously striving against.”
Despite these challenges, the large majority of the leaders and members of the Church remained faithful. Brigham Young, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles during this uncertain period, remembered a meeting at which some Church members were discussing how to depose the Prophet Joseph: “I rose up, and in a plain and forcible manner told them that Joseph was a Prophet and I knew it, and that they might rail and slander him as much as they pleased, [but] they could not destroy the appointment of the Prophet of God; they could only destroy their own authority, cut the thread that bound them to the Prophet and to God, and sink themselves to hell. Many were highly enraged at my decided opposition to their measures. …
“This meeting was broken up without the apostates being able to unite on any decided measures of opposition. This was a crisis when earth and hell seemed leagued to overthrow the Prophet and Church of God. The knees of many of the strongest men in the Church faltered. During this siege of darkness I stood close by Joseph, and with all the wisdom and power God bestowed upon me, put forth my utmost energies to sustain the servant of God and unite the quorums of the Church.”
“I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.”
Heber C. Kimball, while serving as a counselor to President Brigham Young, reported: “I will give you a key which Brother Joseph Smith used to give in Nauvoo. He said that the very step of apostasy commenced with losing confidence in the leaders of this church and kingdom, and that whenever you discerned that spirit you might know that it would lead the possessor of it on the road to apostasy.”
Wilford Woodruff, while serving in the Quorum of the Twelve, said: “Brother Joseph used to counsel us in this wise: ‘The moment you permit yourselves to lay aside any duty that God calls you to perform, to gratify your own desires; the moment you permit yourselves to become careless, you lay a foundation for apostasy. Be careful; understand you are called to a work, and when God requires you to do that work do it.’ Another thing he said: ‘In all your trials, tribulations and sickness, in all your sufferings, even unto death, be careful you don’t betray God, be careful you don’t betray the priesthood, be careful you don’t apostatize.’ ”
Wilford Woodruff also said: “I remember Brother Joseph Smith visited myself, Brother [John] Taylor, Brother Brigham Young and several other missionaries, when we were about to take our mission to England. We were sick and afflicted, many of us. At the same time we felt to go. The Prophet blessed us, as also our wives and families. … He taught us some very important principles, some of which I here name. Brother Taylor, myself, George A. Smith, John E. Page and others had been called to fill the place of those [apostles] who had fallen away. Brother Joseph laid before us the cause of those men turning away from the commandments of God. He hoped we would learn wisdom by what we saw with the eye and heard with the ear, and that we would be able to discern the spirits of other men without being compelled to learn by sad experience.
“He then remarked that any man, any elder in this Church and kingdom, who pursued a course whereby he would ignore or, in other words, refuse to obey any known law or commandment or duty—whenever a man did this, neglected any duty God required at his hand in attending meetings, filling missions, or obeying counsel, he laid a foundation to lead him to apostasy and this was the reason those men had fallen. They had misused the priesthood sealed upon their heads. They had neglected to magnify their calling as apostles, as elders. They had used that priesthood to attempt to build themselves up and to perform some other work besides the building up of the kingdom of God.”
In 1840, a small, organized body of Church members continued to live in Kirtland, Ohio, although most of the Saints had gathered to Nauvoo, Illinois. In response to news that a Church member in Kirtland was trying to destroy the Saints’ confidence in the First Presidency and other authorities of the Church, the Prophet wrote to a Church leader in Kirtland: “In order to conduct the affairs of the Kingdom in righteousness, it is all important that the most perfect harmony, kind feeling, good understanding, and confidence should exist in the hearts of all the brethren; and that true charity, love one towards another, should characterize all their proceedings. If there are any uncharitable feelings, any lack of confidence, then pride, arrogance and envy will soon be manifested; confusion must inevitably prevail, and the authorities of the Church set at naught. …
“If the Saints in Kirtland deem me unworthy of their prayers when they assemble together, and neglect to bear me up at the throne of heavenly grace, it is a strong and convincing proof to me that they have not the Spirit of God. If the revelations we have received are true, who is to lead the people? If the keys of the Kingdom have been committed to my hands, who shall open out the mysteries thereof?
“As long as my brethren stand by me and encourage me, I can combat the prejudices of the world, and can bear the contumely [harsh treatment] and abuse with joy; but when my brethren stand aloof, when they begin to faint, and endeavor to retard my progress and enterprise, then I feel to mourn, but am no less determined to prosecute my task, being confident that although my earthly friends may fail, and even turn against me, yet my heavenly Father will bear me off triumphant.
“However, I hope that even in Kirtland there are some who do not make a man an offender for a word [see Isaiah 29:21], but are disposed to stand forth in defense of righteousness and truth, and attend to every duty enjoined upon them; and who will have wisdom to direct them against any movement or influence calculated to bring confusion and discord into the camp of Israel, and to discern between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
“It would be gratifying to my mind to see the Saints in Kirtland flourish, but think the time is not yet come; and I assure you it never will until a different order of things be established and a different spirit manifested. When confidence is restored, when pride shall fall, and every aspiring mind be clothed with humility as with a garment, and selfishness give place to benevolence and charity, and a united determination to live by every word which proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord is observable, then, and not till then, can peace, order and love prevail.
“It is in consequence of aspiring men that Kirtland has been forsaken. How frequently has your humble servant been envied in his office by such characters, who endeavored to raise themselves to power at his expense, and seeing it impossible to do so, resorted to foul slander and abuse, and other means to effect his overthrow. Such characters have ever been the first to cry out against the Presidency, and publish their faults and foibles to the four winds of heaven.”
“Strange as it may appear at first thought, yet it is no less strange than true, that notwithstanding all the professed determination to live godly, apostates after turning from the faith of Christ, unless they have speedily repented, have sooner or later fallen into the snares of the wicked one, and have been left destitute of the Spirit of God, to manifest their wickedness in the eyes of multitudes. From apostates the faithful have received the severest persecutions. Judas was rebuked and immediately betrayed his Lord into the hands of His enemies, because Satan entered into him.
“There is a superior intelligence bestowed upon such as obey the Gospel with full purpose of heart, which, if sinned against, the apostate is left naked and destitute of the Spirit of God, and he is, in truth, nigh unto cursing, and his end is to be burned. When once that light which was in them is taken from them they become as much darkened as they were previously enlightened, and then, no marvel, if all their power should be enlisted against the truth, and they, Judas-like, seek the destruction of those who were their greatest benefactors.
“What nearer friend on earth, or in heaven, had Judas than the Savior? And his first object was to destroy Him. Who, among all the Saints in these last days, can consider himself as good as our Lord? Who is as perfect? Who is as pure? Who is as holy as He was? Are they to be found? He never transgressed or broke a commandment or law of heaven—no deceit was in His mouth, neither was guile found in His heart. And yet one that ate with Him, who had often drunk of the same cup, was the first to lift up his heel against Him. Where is one like Christ? He cannot be found on earth. Then why should His followers complain, if from those whom they once called brethren, and considered as standing in the nearest relation in the everlasting covenant, they should receive persecution?
“From what source emanated the principle which has ever been manifested by apostates from the true Church to persecute with double diligence, and seek with double perseverance, to destroy those whom they once professed to love, with whom they once communed, and with whom they once covenanted to strive with every power in righteousness to obtain the rest of God? Perhaps our brethren will say the same that caused Satan to seek to overthrow the kingdom of God, because he himself was evil, and God’s kingdom is holy.”
“There have always been, in every age of the church, those who have been opposed to the principles of virtue, who have loved the gain of this present world, followed the principles of unrighteousness, and have been the enemies of truth. … Those who have associated with us and made the greatest professions of friendship, have frequently been our greatest enemies and our most determined foes; if they became unpopular, if their interest or dignity was touched, or if they were detected in their iniquity, they were always the first to raise the hand of persecution, to calumniate [make false charges about] and vilify their brethren, and to seek the downfall and destruction of their friends.”
“Renegade ‘Mormon’ dissenters are running through the world and spreading various foul and libelous reports against us, thinking thereby to gain the friendship of the world, because they know that we are not of the world, and that the world hates us; therefore they [the world] make a tool of these fellows [the dissenters]; and by them try to do all the injury they can, and after that they hate them worse than they do us, because they find them to be base traitors and sycophants [flatterers].”
Wilford Woodruff reported: “I attended [a] meeting at the [Kirtland] Temple [on February 19, 1837]. President Joseph Smith had been absent on business for the Church, but not half as long as Moses was in the mount away from Israel [see Exodus 32:1–8]; yet many of the people in Kirtland, if they did not make a calf to worship as did the Israelites, turned their hearts away from the Lord and from his servant Joseph, and had engaged in speculation and given way to false spirits, until they were darkened in their minds; and many were opposed to Joseph Smith, and some wished to appoint David Whitmer to lead the Church in his stead. In the midst of this cloud of dark spirits, Joseph returned to Kirtland, and this morning arose in the stand. He appeared much depressed; but soon the Spirit of God rested upon him, and he addressed the assembly in great plainness for about three hours, and put his enemies to silence.
“When he arose he said, ‘I am still the President, Prophet, Seer, Revelator and Leader of the Church of Jesus Christ. God, and not man, has appointed and placed me in this position, and no man or set of men have power to remove me or appoint another in my stead, and those who undertake this, if they do not speedily repent, will burn their fingers and go to hell.’ He reproved the people sharply for their sins, darkness and unbelief; the power of God rested upon him, and bore testimony that his sayings were true.”
Wilford Woodruff reported: “President Smith spoke in the afternoon [on April 9, 1837], and said in the name of the Lord that the judgments of God would rest upon those men who had professed to be his friends, and friends of humanity, and in building up Kirtland, a stake of Zion, but had turned traitors to him, and the interests of the kingdom of God, and had given power into the hands of our enemies against us; they had oppressed the poor Saints, and had brought distress upon them, and had become covenant breakers, for which they will feel the wrath of God.”
Daniel Tyler recalled: “Soon after the Prophet’s arrival in Commerce (afterwards Nauvoo) from Missouri prison, Brother Isaac Behunin and myself made him a visit at his residence. His persecutions were the topic of conversation. He repeated many false, inconsistent and contradictory statements made by apostates, frightened members of the Church and outsiders. He also told how most of the officials who would fain have taken his life, when he was arrested, turned in his favor on forming his acquaintance. He laid the burden of the blame on false brethren. …
“When the Prophet had ended telling how he had been treated, Brother Behunin remarked: ‘If I should leave this Church I would not do as those men have done: I would go to some remote place where Mormonism had never been heard of, settle down, and no one would ever learn that I knew anything about it.’
“The great Seer immediately replied: ‘Brother Behunin, you don’t know what you would do. No doubt these men once thought as you do. Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached, good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant.’ ”
Orson Hyde, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, reported: “Joseph the Prophet … said, ‘Brethren, remember that the majority of this people will never go astray; and as long as you keep with the majority you are sure to enter the celestial kingdom.’ ”
William G. Nelson reported: “I have heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him say: ‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.”
Ezra T. Clark remembered: “I heard the Prophet Joseph say that he would give the Saints a key whereby they would never be led away or deceived, and that was: The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy.”
Ping
Mormons are really sensitive about that. It’s really weird how that is handled.
I’ve also found that ex-Mormons never leave the church. They just stand outside and yell at it.
Have you ever been a member of a cult? If you have been, then were freed, do you think it a Christian thing to allow others to continue to be deceived?
Statement by Sandra Tanner. Since I was born and raised in the Mormon church, and am a great-great-grandchild of Brigham Young, I had very strong ties to the Mormon faith. I was about seventeen before I ever attended another church. As a teenager my life centered around the Mormon church. Because I was active and paying my tithing I thought I was in pretty good standing with God. I knew I sinned but I felt my activity in church would somehow outweigh what I did wrong. I believed (as the Mormons teach) that I was inherently good. I had no fear of God’s judgment. Besides the things that were wrong in my own life, I began to have doubts about my church. Could it really be the only true church? Was polygamy really right? Why couldn’t the Negro hold the priesthood? Was temple marriage really so important? Why were its rites kept such a secret? Did God actually command Mormons to wear special under-garments? I had many questions going through my mind.
When I started college I enrolled in the Mormon Institute of Religion class. I started asking questions in class, trying to find answers to my doubts. But one day my institute teacher took me aside and told me to please stop asking questions in class. There was a girl attending the class who was thinking of joining the church and I was disturbing her with my questions. What a surprise! I had hoped to find answers to the many things that were bothering me and now I had been silenced.
Shortly after this I met Jerald and we began studying the Bible and Mormonism together. As we studied I began to see the contradictions between the Bible and the teaching of the Mormon church. I had grown up thinking that Brigham Young was one of the greatest men that ever lived. He was always presented to me as such a holy man—God’s prophet, seer, and revelator. Then Jerald had me read some of Brigham Young’s sermons in the Journal of Discourses on blood atonement. I was shocked! I knew what Brigham Young was saying was wrong but I couldn’t reconcile these sermons with the things I had always been taught concerning him. I knew these were not the words of a prophet of God.
Jerald also showed me the changes that had been made in Joseph Smith’s revelations. The thought kept coming to me that if God had actually given those revelations to Joseph Smith why would they need rewriting? Surely the Creator of the universe could say it right the first time!
As I studied I not only found errors in Mormonism, I also began to comprehend there was something wrong in my own life. As I studied God’s Word I realized I was a sinful hypocrite. In spite of my sins I had thought I was right with God. Yet the Bible says: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Rom. 6:23).
After Jerald and I were married we started visiting the different Protestant churches. As I listened to the sermons I began to realize that God was not concerned with peoples’ church affiliations, but with a personal relationship. Christ taught a way of love, not a religious system. He stated: “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another” (John 13:35). Paul taught that we should “walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us . . .” (Eph. 5:2).
God reaches out to man, not because he deserves it, but because God loves him. John wrote: “Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins” (1 John 4:10). Paul wrote: “But God, who is rich in mercy, . . . even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ . . . For by grace are ye save through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Eph. 2:4, 5, 8, 9).
I now want to share with you the particular events of the day I surrendered my heart and life to Jesus Christ: Early one morning (October 24, 1959) I decided to listen to the radio for a while. I turned to the Christian radio station and listened to a sermon. The minister was preaching on the great love of God and the mercy offered to us through Jesus Christ. Nothing ever struck me with such force. I opened my heart to God and accepted Christ as my own personal Saviour. The Holy Spirit flooded my soul with such joy that I wept for over an hour. After the sermon the station played this song written by Elton M. Roth—
I love the Christ who died on Calv’ry,
For He washed my sins away;
He put within my heart a melody,
And I know it’s there to stay.
In my heart there rings a melody,
There rings a melody with heaven’s harmony;
In my heart there rings a melody,
There rings a melody of love.
This song fully describes the way I felt. How glorious to know Christ died for my sins so I could have a new life in Him. Our lives testify to all we meet whether or not we are truly Christians. Paul wrote: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance; against such there is no law” (Gal. 5:22-23). Sandra Tanner
Today converts are swarming into the Mormon church, but very few of them really know much about Mormonism. We feel safe in saying that many of them are converted to the social program of the church rather than to its doctrines. Those who were born in the church in many cases “know” it is true but don’t know why it is true. Many Mormons will stand up in testimony meeting and dogmatically assert that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that they belong to “the only true church,” but very few of them check to make sure that their faith is based on reality. Many members of the Mormon church prefer to let their leaders do their thinking (”when our leaders speak, the thinking has been done”); it is so easy to let someone else do our thinking. The Bible warns: “Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord” (Jer. 17:5). We sincerely hope and pray that the Mormon people will begin to awaken to the true message of Christ, realizing that in Him, and Him alone, can we have salvation—salvation that brings genuine deliverance from sin and real fellowship with the God who loved us enough to die for us.
If your children and grandchildren were told lies for years afterwards about why you left the church, you'd stand outside and yell also. Many mormons take it as a very personal affront, as though there were something stolen from them.
Dear ________,
I believe you are a sincere person, so I will thank you for your desire to share your testimony with me.
I loved God, even as an LDS child. It was for my love of Jesus Christ that I became baptized. During those baptism preparation classes I took, when I was 8, my teacher told me that all my sins would be washed away. She told me that up until that time, I had not been responsible for my sins because I was not old enough to be. But from this point on, she said, you will be responsible for your own sin, and when you die you will be judged according to what you do from this day on. It entered my mind then, that maybe it would be better to just have nothing after death...no eternal life...because I wasn’t sure I could be perfect.
I tell you this because I was, for most of my young adult life, a very “good” Mormon. I had been taught all my life that the Mormon Church was the “true Gospel” and I had never questioned it. However, I always felt there was something missing from my Spiritual life and religious faith. I figured it meant that I just needed to “dig deeper” into Mormon doctrine to find the answer, but the deeper I dug, the more discontent I felt.
During my time as a Mormon, I exhausted myself trying to be perfect. And I fell short in so many areas that I ended up walking away from Mormonism and God altogether. You see, my whole life I was taught that the way to be close to God was to be perfect. To live the commandments perfectly and feel constantly sorry for every wrong thing I was doing. Never once did anyone tell me that the way to develop a personal relationship with God was to accept His Grace; to admit that I could never begin to repay His sacrifice; to fully love Him, rest in Him, depend on Him, give everything I had over to Him and trust in His promise that He WILL save all who believe; and to worship and praise Him with my mouth, body, mind, heart, and soul. I was never told that my best effort is enough because His love for me is more than enough.
Eventually I started looking outside Mormonism to find answers. I read everything I could find from other dogmas and religions that they could possibly offer. While I had access to many books and historical documentation disproving Mormonism’s basic claims, my decision to leave behind the Mormon Church was not prompted by a testimonial against Joseph Smith’s character, or an explanation of the changes that have been made to the Book of Mormon over the years that are in glaring contrast to the original work, or some other grudge against discrepancies in Mormon history. My decision to leave was based in my discovery of God’s Grace; something that Mormonism had never offered me.
While my original investigation of Mormonism as a belief system came about as a result of some personal experiences in the church that caused me to question it’s doctrine as a whole, my final exit came about as the result of my education in one particular principle that was exempt from my Mormon upbringing: God’s Grace. As a Mormon, I had always been taught that God’s forgiveness, love and acceptance had to be “earned”. While the doctrine was softened with carefully chosen words, my concept of God was that I would never be good enough to be accepted by Him until I was “perfect”. After all, Mormons believe that they will someday be gods themselves, and so perfection is their ultimate expectation. According to their teachings, God was really only willing to grant forgiveness to those who never committed the same sin more than once. I could hardly live up to that ideal. There was no personal relationship with their deity; no communication with the heavens, no proof of revelation. It was only their story of Joseph Smith, a boy they claimed talked to God, that offered evidence of their god’s existence.
The life-changing moment came for me when I walked into the sanctuary of a local Bible church. I was greeted at the door in an enveloping, welcoming hug, and felt God’s presence pressing down on the entire place. As a Mormon, I had never known the concept of worship. I had never openly praised, sung or danced in God’s glory. I had never realized that “confessing” Jesus as my personal Savior did not mean to simply say “I know” or “I believe He exists”, but that it meant to give full credit to Him. When I came to the Lord, I realized for the first time that simply saying “I believe in Jesus” is not enough; I was required to admit full dependence, full honor, full glory, full praise to His name and His personage. And that to believe with my heart did not mean to just believe Jesus existed—it meant to believe He is who He professed to be, and to actively and wholeheartedly believe I was saved. For the first time I KNEW that the work had been done on my behalf, and that Jesus’ Blood had thoroughly cleansed me from all sin through no virtue of my own. For the first time I knew that Salvation is not a “work in progress” or something that must be earned, and that believing Jesus does not mean that we believe He has the power to save us if we are good enough or obedient enough. I finally knew that Salvation is a gift given readily to those who are truly willing to ask for it. And it was available to me, as long as I wanted it.
I cannot explain what I believe to the extent that I feel it in my heart. I know the only way to really know the nature of God, the awesome beauty of His love for us; to even begin to comprehend His holiness, His personality, His magnificence, is to truly worship and spend time with Him. Not just with His scriptures, not just talking at Him in prayer, but to spend time with (abide with) HIM. As a Mormon I never had the opportunity to do that. And when I finally did, I was blown away by the God that met me there. He is so much more unfathomable than any Mormon or other man-made doctrine could explain.
By reducing His capacity as the Creator of all things, the Ultimate Power and Awesome Being that God is, in order to fit God into something finite or tangible only limits His relevance and relationship with us. If we limit His power and His role as our Maker by placing boundaries on His capabilities according to our capacity to comprehend Him, we only prevent ourselves from coming to a point where we can put all pride aside and come to Him in true meekness and humility, as creatures who are nothing in comparison to His glory and His power.
All my life I wanted an intimate relationship with God. The first time I really WORSHIPPED God, I suddenly knew that was what I had been missing. That was what I’d tried to attain my entire life. The feeling of intimacy and relationship with God I had been looking for, but never achieved, I had finally found. It was a level of communion with God I thought I’d find in the Mormon Temple, where I had been met with something completely different. Looking back into the Word, I realized that God never intended a “church” as an organized religion to be the way to Him. The only way to the Father is through a relationship with Jesus. God is not seeking people who will join an institution, but rather those who will be believers, worshippers, His children.
I love you,
colorcountry
About all I can say to that wonderful testimony is Amen.
Interesting broad brushing attack upon exmormons. Some should probably go here to see some of their stories:
http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm
Many stories also include excommunication later on for some kind of fabricated "morale failing", to put a greater wedge between them and their families still stuck in mormonism.
Beautiful testamony. What really breaks my heart is that when mormons discover how false and fraudlent it is, they go completely off the map into atheism.
Yes, most of us do. I spent nearly 20 years as an agnostic/atheist. God still saved me!
We have examples at FR of ex-mormons who have taken up the atheist perspective ... they don’t tend to yell at ‘the church’, but they certainly seem to have a burr under the saddle when it comes to Christianity.
How do you know you are saved? This is a serious/non-combative question.
You are correct. I will go so far as to change your statement from "the majority" to "some".
I will ask you though, in your opinion, why you think the church leaders feel it necessary to provide this lesson to the PH and RS members at this time? Do you see something in that lesson that is a suggestion for reaching out?
Monson, in his conference talk, made this statement: Over the years we have issued appeals to the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor—to come back. “Come back and feast at the table of the Lord, and taste again the sweet and satisfying fruits of fellowship with the Saints.”2
This was a litany of attributed motives to the many who have left the church, a reminder that there is no honest reason, such as false teachings that would lead to apostasy. This suggests that leaving is due to character failure. And I see nothing in this posted lesson that disputes that suggestion.
"Those who apostatize lose the Spirit of God.
I don't see how it could be made much plainer than this.
Burr under the saddle is right! Its as if they speak with a forked tongue. :0)
God is faithful! Even when we are not.
First we must define “know.”
clear perception of fact, truth, or duty; certain apprehension; familiar cognizance; cognition.
1. I have knowledge that the Bible is the word of God. so....
2.1 John 5:13, “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”
Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
John 1:12
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”
1 John 1:9
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
Rev. 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any man hear my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
Now, a discussion of how I “know” the Bible is the word of God, is a much larger discussion, and would take a great deal of effort to describe. The first step in knowing the Bible is to read it. Have you read it?
“Strange as it may appear at first thought, yet it is no less strange than true, that notwithstanding all the professed determination to live godly, apostates after turning from the faith of Christ, unless they have speedily repented, have sooner or later fallen into the snares of the wicked one, and have been left destitute of the Spirit of God, to manifest their wickedness in the eyes of multitudes.
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