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To: GreyFriar

James did speak last at the debate. Tradition records him as being the first Bishop of the See of Jerusalem. Tradition also puts Peter as the head of the Church at Antioch, which came to supplant Jerusalem as the main Church, which was later supplanted by Rome.


17 posted on 05/15/2008 9:15:51 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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To: ChurtleDawg
Tradition records him as being the first Bishop of the See of Jerusalem.

Then you've just shot down the Roman Catholic argument that Peter headed the early Ekklesia. The only time Jerusalem has not been the center of Jewish religious authority has been when Jews were not allowed to enter into it. This is why so important a question as how to handle the influx of Gentiles into the faith was decided at Jerusalem instead of, for example, Antioch, Tarsus, or some other easier-to-reach by ship city, and why Paul was so eager to make his pilgrimage there in 60 CE.

Jerusalem was still standing when Peter was martyred. Ergo, if Jacob (James) led the Jerusalem assembly, he was the de-facto leader of the Ekklesia--insofar as the Ekklesia had a single de-facto leader other than Yeshua, which they really didn't. Issues that involved more than a local body were decided by a Beit Din (House of Judgment, or Council) rather than by any single "bishop."

Shalom.

19 posted on 05/15/2008 9:37:43 AM PDT by Buggman (HebrewRoot.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
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To: ChurtleDawg
Tradition also puts Peter as the head of the Church at Antioch, which came to supplant Jerusalem as the main Church, which was later supplanted by Rome.

Peter was never the head of the church at Antioch. Peter's commission was simple. [Matthew 10:5-6] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. [Galatians 2:7-8] But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:

Here are two very definitive scriptures showing the commission of the Apostle Peter. Paul was commissioned....basically to everyone....[Acts 9:15] circumcised..... as well as non circumcised. Peter never set foot in Rome and scripture shows him elsewhere.....always evangelizing the Israelites.

The only time scripture shows Peter in Antioch was when he was being chewed out by Paul! [Galatians 2:11] But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. If you read further (verse 12) you'll see that Peter was frightened of those sent from James in Jerusalem. This is hardly the profile of a "Man in charge"!

69 posted on 05/15/2008 6:12:56 PM PDT by Diego1618
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