Posted on 05/03/2008 6:30:52 AM PDT by NYer
Disobeying a Protestant monarch when persecuting Catholics in an historically Catholic country is not treason. It’s loyalty to God and His Church.
You wrote:
“The Church of the Middle Ages became horribly corrupt...The Protestant Revolution was necessary and inevitable to correct this horrible corruption...”
Sorry, but you’re simply following the claptrap MSM sort of myth here. See http://www.the-orb.net/non_spec/missteps/ch11.html
Hey, I’m not the one who’s saying it. John Paul II signed the 1992 edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is sitting on top of my monitor as I type this. I am looking at 830-838.
I don’t think it qualifies as “indifferentism” if you say that Protestants can get into heaven too. Saying that tree-worship or Islam is as good as Christianity—that would be indifferentism.
Uh, no. The only royals who get anything off the government are those who perform royal duties. Just being of Royal blood or having a title doesn’t give you access to the civil list.
And whilst the Queen is the largest landowner, most of the revenues of the crown estate go to the government, and what she gets back from the civil list is but a tiny fraction of what she pays in....
But this woman is not protestant, she is Catholic. Before she was “accepted” into the Church of England, did she present herself to her Catholic bishop and ask to officially renounce her faith? One cannot “convert” to Protestantism from the one true faith. You can only convert TO Catholicism. She has not “converted” but abandoned the true Church.
I am pretty certain that Princess Anne’s two children do not posess titles of any sort. So, I presume Peter Philips does not get any stipend either.
I agree with other posters here - it’s really ludicrous in the 21st century for England to have a law barring Catholics from the throne or from the royal family, but not mention of non-Christian faiths.
Leaving aside the question of this woman's faith and her decision, let me draw your attention to what the Catechism says: all those who believe in Christ and accept His sacraments are part of the Church of Christ. The Catechism is quite specific on this. You may recall recently that some Baptists and others were in fact offended when the Vatican reaffirmed not long ago that other churches are part of the greater Church of Christ.
It is not really helpful to identify others who believe in Christ and accept Him as their Savior as somehow not being part of the "true Church." That attitude has started wars. If the very Pope believes that others who are not Catholic can be fully Christian, are you more demanding than he is?
What kind of logic are you into? By leaving the RCC and joining the COE, she "converted" and is no longer a RC member.
You have it right. The church of Christ is all-encompassing, made up of all believers of every denomination of Christianity. This is why many say that one does not have to be a Catholic (referencing the Roman Church) to be a Christian. The result of that is one of the quanderies facing theologians in the Roman Catholic Church. A person once asked me "why should I be a Catholic if I can be saved in other denominations of Christianity?" I had to say he didn't, for it is admitted that he can be saved in any of the denominations of Christianity by the Catholic church officials.
There are Anglo-Catholics who are close, but the majority of serious Christians among the Anglicans are evangelicals. The point of complaint here is that the Act of succession is more than 300 years old, and in today’s context, ridiculous. My guess is that the women is no more than a nominal Catholic anyway. The likehood of her husband suceeding is about as likely a a new ice age. She just don’t want to miss out on the formal invitations.
It seems to me your are just proving my point, they do not accept most of the sacraments.
I am talking about conversion in the theological sense, not in the commonplace definition of simply changing from one thing to another.
That’s not exactly complete. Yes, a baptized Christian is a member of the church founded by Christ, although if Protestant, unfortunately not in “full communion” with the Church. Someone baptized who converts to Catholicism is coming into the fullness of the Christian faith. Going the other way is depriving oneself of sacraments and moving away from the truth. You’re not correct that the Church holds all Christian sects as equal. Certainly a protestant can be saved, per Catholic teaching, as can a Buddhist, Muslim, or even atheist, etc. Not easy, but who are we to put limits on God’s grace. However, the farther away you are from the seven Sacraments that Christ instituted to give us the means of obtaining the grace necessary for salvation, the more difficult it’s going to be to live in union with God and according to truth.
I think you are missing the point. All baptized Christians are members of the Church, but their churches are not thereby “branches’ of the True Church. Our separated bretheran are removed by different degrees. The Orthodox churches have a valid episcopacy, seven sacraments, and correct doctrine. They simply are not in union with the Church of Rome. The Anglican churches do not, or at least this is what the Church has said. The irony is, from MPOV, is that many Protestants believe in the fundamental doctrines of the Church more than many professed Catholics. For instance there are many Lutherans and Episcopalians who believe in the Real Presence, and many Catholics who do not.
A few members of the British parliament have been talking about introducing legislation to repeal it.
So Catholics get to define words? I think you are wrong about this. If you are citing RC theology, then that is circular.
What "they" are you talking about? The Church of England accepts the sacraments of baptism, confirmation, matrimony, holy orders, confession, and the Holy Eucharist. Liturgically there is so little difference between the C of E and the Roman Church that you really can hardly tell the difference when you get into one. They use the same confessions and creeds.
Look, I'm going to be frank with you. I'm a Protestant, raised as an Episcopalian. There is something calling me to the Catholic Church, and this is why I've been studying the Catechism. But one thing that frightens and distresses me, and pushes me away from the Catholic Church, is this loud, vicious attitude that so many Catholics have: "You Protestants are all DAMNED TO HELL!" I have actually had Catholics make the sign of the evil eye against me when they heard I was Protestant. This is simply ignorant. Priests don't believe that Protestants are all going to hell and His Holiness the Pope doesn't, either. So why do so many Catholics believe this when it's not part of the Church doctrine??
Honestly, we are called to evangelize. Being ugly and hostile toward people who believe in Christ as you do is not the way to get them to come into the fold of the Catholic Church.
I am trying to be a voice of accommodation and reason here. I'm trying to reach out. I wish to gracious some Catholics would reach back instead of being condemnatory toward all Protestants. Starting to feel like George Bush reaching out to Teddy Kennedy.
You wrote:
“No, it was a mess. Some quite corrupt people corrupted the message of Jesus Christ beyond recognition.”
Completely untrue.
“Surely you agree that some kind of reform was necessary.”
Yes, but that isn’t what Protestantism was or is. Protestantism is a new gospel.
“When a man like Rodrigo Borgia manages to commandeer the Papacy, something’s wrong.”
He didn’t commandeer it, and the fact that his paternal great-grandson was a saint shows that all families - including the Christian family - have good and bad members.
“When people—anyone for any reason—are burned or otherwise tortured to death in the name of God, whoever has done this could not commit a more profound blasphemy and could not be further off the beam.”
So Moses and the Levites were off the beam when they slaughtered his fellow 23,000 Jews with the sword? And wouldn’t that mean God Himself was off the beam since He ordered it done?
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