Posted on 03/08/2008 11:05:06 AM PST by Pyro7480
DALLAS — Artwork depicting the Virgin Mary as a stripper stirred trouble while on display at a small Catholic university before the piece was apparently stolen.
The print was part of an exhibit last month at the University of Dallas that featured the work of students at Murray State University in Kentucky. Joanna Gianulis, a senior art major at Murray State, said she was trying to raise questions about perceptions of saints and sinners and didn't intend to be sacrilegious.
"How do we know that an exotic dancer is sinful?" she said. "What if she has the best intentions and strives only to help those in need?
"Many single mothers are in this position and that is another reason why I chose to reference the Virgin Mary, because she was another woman who was in a tough position and probably received much criticism because of it."
Gianulis said she has no digital image of the print. Others who have seen it say it includes a veiled young woman wearing pasties and a G-string with money stuck in it.
The display went up Feb. 8 and prompted complaints within a couple of days. University President Frank Lazarus was away from the campus in the Dallas suburb of Irving when it was displayed but went to see it when he returned.
Lazarus said he found the print objectionable but didn't remove it because of concerns about restricting academic freedom. Instead, he and other officials decided to put up signs warning that some items might be considered offensive.
"It was imprudent of (Lazarus) to leave it up," said Tom Lagarde, a member of the Class of '97 and secretary of the school's national alumni board. "Regardless of what the artist's message was ... the means she used were illicit, at least for Catholics."
Lazarus said he was considering further restrictions when the piece was discovered missing Feb. 14. Campus police are investigating the case as a theft.
Joshua Neu, a junior majoring in English and philosophy, was among those upset by the print.
"The university ought not display images that make profane that which the institution holds sacred," he said.
Jeanne Luthi, a senior art major at UD, said students need to see contemporary art, even if some of it is upsetting.
"People read (philosopher Friedrich) Nietzsche in the core curriculum, and that's fairly anti-Christian," she said. "It just feels like the visual arts are being held to a completely different standard."
Asked for her description of the piece, Gianulis wrote in an e-mail:
"The work is a black and white woodcut relief print depicting a scantily clad stripper wearing a veil and holding a rosary. Other details in the work are scrolls saying 'Sinner or Saint?' in Spanish and referencing the Virgin (of) Guadalupe, and also a snake, some white lilies, a pair of scales, and also a small image of a bar of soap opposite a bottle marked 'xxx.'"
The Virgin of Guadalupe is a revered image to many Catholics, particularly Hispanics who accept the legend of the 16th-century appearance of Mary, the mother of Jesus, to a Mexican peasant. Dallas is a center of Virgin of Guadalupe devotion, and its downtown cathedral is named for her.
University president Frank Lazarus, in particular, has been criticized by alumni who feel he erred by not ordering the print removed after he got a look at it.
"It was imprudent of him to leave it up," said Tom Lagarde, a member of the Class of '97 and secretary of the school's national alumni board.
"Regardless of what the artist's message was ... the means she used were illicit, at least for Catholics."
Dr. Lazarus didn't respond to requests for an interview. But earlier he released a statement denouncing the apparent theft and acknowledging the school's struggle to balance academic and artistic freedom with preservation of "Catholic character."
"A number of mistakes were made, and there are lessons to be learned here," he said....
But Ms. Gianulis said she didn't mean to offend Catholics in Dallas or anywhere else, and didn't even know UD is a Catholic school.
The purpose of the print, she said, is to raise questions about who is perceived as saint and who as sinner.
"How do we know that an exotic dancer is sinful?" she said in a prepared statement for the UD art department. "What if she has the best intentions and strives only to help those in need? Many single mothers are in this position and that is another reason why I chose to reference the Virgin Mary, because she was another woman who was in a tough position and probably received much criticism because of it."
Catholic ping!
Guess the students hadn't a clue about Joseph.
So this justifies displaying her as an exotic dancer? There are so many characters that fit the description, the least of which is the Blessed Mother.
“A number of mistakes were made, and there are lessons to be learned here,” he said....”
You bet, and the first one is you ought be fired, you doofus.
The usual attack on anything religious or Christian.
It makes one wonder what vile perversities are being taught by the public schools and parents of the young woman who did this.
It’s a projection parade. They claim apostles were high on drugs, Holy Mother was a stripper. One atheist said once - people always make religion in their own image. It seems he was just making an observation looking at the those around him....
The artist is a student at a public school, not the private religious institution (where the work was to be on exhibit).
The same STATE that is prohibited from promoting my religious beliefs in Christianity is also prohibited from SLURRING my religious beliefs.
The left does not see it this way. A jar of urine with a crucifix in it and a profane name can be federally funded but do not try to get them to use such funds to create a positive portrayal.
I don't really need a sarcasm alert, do I?
“Many single mothers are in this position and that is another reason why I chose to reference the Virgin Mary, because she was another woman who was in a tough position and probably received much criticism because of it.”
Mary wasn’t single and she wasn’t a floozy.
Jesus did not turn His back on prostitutes or tax collectors but He did not praise their careers either.
Why didn’t this young head full of mush make Mary a tax collector?
To the erstwhle artist:
yawn...that angry young artist thingie is over 100 years old. And your work is clearly derivative.
How ‘bout a giant picture of Mohammad stripping??? Make sure it gets on the internet along with pictures of the artists, their names, addresses and phone numbers. Then a caption underneath stating that “Islam worships Satan”.
That’s courage.
Of course, she wouldn't do anything like having a muslim woman doing a strip tease because the school doesn't want to be firebombed and she doesn't want to go into hiding.
In the final analysis, she's pretending to be a radical by claiming she's bravely standing up to someone who wouldn't do anything to her, anyway.
The young lady is saying this is a picture of a stripper ~ not of Mary.
The real question is why the President of this school is of the opinion that strippers are OK and Mary isn't ~ which is what it gets down to if you accept the artist's own idea of what she painted.
The use of the vail(sp?) suggests this may be the Islamic view of things too, and the young artist could be in trouble with the Islamofascist fuzzy wuzzy guys ~ maybe they'll hold a riot for her in Mecca.
May I note for the record that Mexicans have no monopoly on Mary.
Most of the University's faculty, staff, and students aren't Mexican or Hispanic. They're Catholic, and the presiden't handling of this shows he needs to step down, particular since the University of Dallas has a reputation for being a conservative, orthodox Catholic school.
Moslems can and do take offense at this sort of thing ~ for a variety of reasons ~ and some of them will kill you for being even mildly "edgy" when it comes to depictions of people named in the Koran.
I'm sure the artist was unaware of just how risky this sort of art is ~ which is one of the reasons there isn't all that much of it.
Whose on the board who hired him? Why did those people think this guy would be a good leader for this type of school?
Maybe you should approach them.
Um... by definition?
University of Dallas was exhibiting the work of students from some sub-regional University of the Kentucky branch? Why?
Derision becomes her.
******************
This woman appears to know little, if anything about Mary's life. She also appears to be confused about the definition of sin. All in all, pretty ignorant of the entire subject of Religion.
A moslem artist was commissioned to do a rosary box for Pope John Paul II; there is reverence for Mary in moslem religious circles, had the young lady known that, would she have proceeded?
The young lady only meant to shock people. What will she do for an encore? They’ve already done Jesus as gay, or married, or just a human—whatever could possibly offend Catholics has been done.
No Catholic fatwas were issued, her life is not in danger from Catholics, there are no Catholics rioting in the streets, and no one will demand a public apology from her. Sort of the radical equivalent of kicking a theological puppy: shocking, but really shameful, too; no matter what you think of Mary, she’s humble, and does not brandish any power and was never known to judge anyone, only offer love and mercy. Maybe some day this so-called artist will grow up.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
And then there is the latest claim by an Israeli researcher - Moses was high on hallucinogenic drugs when he received Ten Commandments.
"Jeanne Luthi, a senior art major at UD, said students need to see contemporary art, even if some of it is upsetting. "People read (philosopher Friedrich) Nietzsche in the core curriculum, and that's fairly anti-Christian," she said. "It just feels like the visual arts are being held to a completely different standard." "
It "feels" unfair, huh?
Sounds like someone solved the problem. It's gone. There should be plenty of books on Picasso, Warhol, and Kandinsky in the library.
Hmmmm.........
Ever heard of Joseph?
Here's a clue.....
He was her husband.....
She wasn't a "single mother".
Try reading your Bible.
Dummie
I went and checked on the Mary story and she never danced in public, so it's not really Mary.
It seems to me folks are falling for more ART HISTORIAN BS. That's the stuff that spews out of the mouth of professional non-artists about what a real artist meant, or thought, or was portraying.
Never trust an art historian!
"Many single mothers are in this position and that is another reason why I chose to reference the Virgin Mary, because she was another woman who was in a tough position and probably received much criticism because of it."
So, perhaps she was only "referencing" Mary as a stripper. I'm not, honestly, sure what she means by that.
Ah, yes. Can't have a religious controversial topic without the obligatory "public school is bad" post. Guess what! The University of Dallas is a private Catholic university.
http://www.udallas.edu/
Yeah, you could say that.
There's more there than the figure of the dancer ~ besides, the dancer has a rosary. I know you frequently see pictures of Mary that have a rosary decorating the frame, but checking through my Scriptural references real quick (sola scriptura is the standard for this) I didn't find anything that said Mary had a rosary.
Now modern Catholic and Moslem women might be expected to have rosaries, so I have to presume the dancer is a modern woman, and the picture, as a whole, has a reference to Mary, but the figure is NOT Mary.
The artist did not say the figure is Mary (at least not in this story). Again, the dancer is veiled ~ and that might mean something or maybe it means nothing. Are mostly undressed but veiled dancers common anywhere outside a classical Moslem harem?
This girl might well have only the most limited knowledge of traditional symbols ~ so we can only guess what she meant. Kind of like the oh, so edgy Environmentalist picture so many artists do that has a large fork stuck in a tree.
Maybe has to do with eating trees, or was there a strong tornado yesterday?
This is "take your pick" art ~ I'm offended somebody wasted tuition dollars on this artist.
Remember, the woman is NOT MARY ~ unlike Jesus she did not leave any photos behind so we have no idea what she looked like.
I’m sorry to appear uncharitable, but this woman is a complete idiot.
&&&
Not uncharitable at all — just truthful.
A stripper “strives only to help those in need”? In need of what? Never mind, I am a lady, so don’t answer that.
Such material is most painful for the Faithful which is no doubt the intention of the instigator. One of the many beautiful aspects of Christianity is its infinite resilience to this kind of hostility.
Our civil attention was raised, and again, I wonder for what purpose.
This makes me very sad. Once upon a time the University of Dallas was a very solidly orthodox universtiy in the Catholic tradition.
I am glad that it was stolen. I hope that it was destroyed.
What a spineless creep that president is.
“”How do we know that an exotic dancer is sinful?” she said in a prepared statement for the UD art department. “What if she has the best intentions and strives only to help those in need? Many single mothers are in this position...”
Arousing someone’s lust is a sin against charity. Overt pride in one’s body and its ability to arouse lust is a sin.
Using some specious argument about poor single mothers should be a sin against sloppy thinking but what can you expect from people who don’t know that right and wrong, true and false are not interchangeable.
“Ah, yes. Can’t have a religious controversial topic without the obligatory “public school is bad” post. Guess what! The University of Dallas is a private Catholic university”
No shiite sherlock. Try reading comprehension. I’m talking about the secondary school she went to and assuming that she went to a public school. I also make reference to parents.
Things are worse than you imagine!
I've got some bad news for you sunshine, a drunk in need of a handjob is not exactly on par with a world needing a Savior.
thanks for the ping...this is “my” school!!
Perhaps it was stolen so it could be destroyed, which in this case might constitute an act of charity rather than of theft.
And the artist herself was known to be a virgin who was leading an exemplary Catholic life. Get ready for the crusade against the infidels...those few who would be willing to fight for the faith. Those in the vast majority for whom their faith is but a quaint affiliation to be ‘proper,’ take your seats among the spectators.
>> I know you frequently see pictures of Mary that have a rosary decorating the frame, but checking through my Scriptural references real quick (sola scriptura is the standard for this) I didn’t find anything that said Mary had a rosary. <<
“Sola scriptura is the standard for this?” So she meant to offend Catholics, not Protestants, and that makes it OK? And nothing can be true which happened after the bible was completed?
The rosary was given, according to Catholic faith, by the Blessed Virgin Mary to St. Dominic. (The notion of counting repitions of the Lord’s Prayer to represent the psalms dated back to 4th century.) In many apparitions of the Blessed Virgin, she has carried the rosary, including at the Battle of Lepanto, at which she directed the commander of the Christian forces to pray with it in battle, which saved all of Western Civilization from a Muslim onslaught.
Actually, I heard that it has been burned.
Gone. Ashes.
:)
I was glad to hear of it.
Actually, I heard that it has been burned.
Gone. Ashes.
:)
I was glad to hear of it.
“Check out the Koran sometime. There’s a large chunk of it devoted to Mary.
Moslems can and do take offense at this sort of thing ~ for a variety of reasons ~ and some of them will kill you for being even mildly “edgy” when it comes to depictions of people named in the Koran.”
Ironic that while Moslems take can and do take offense when it comes to those people they honor in the Koran, say for example either Moses or even Mary, people just as honored if not more so by Jews and Christians, as sadly seen late last week in Isreal with the slaugther of young Jewish yeshiva students in Jerusalam in the end dishonors these same very honored people of the Holy Bible that both the Koran and Moslems honor.
What she said is obviously that within the context of her picture she "referenced" Mary ~ by putting in elements pertaining to religion.
I still think she's screwy with the veil. But never mind, her grasp of religious symbols is obviously not very good.
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