TRANSUBSTANTIATION FOR BEGINNERS

On This Rock ^ | CANON FRANCIS J. RIPLEY

[Marysecretary]

Well, I’m a Christian and I only long for the comfort of the scriptures and Jesus Christ himself, who, through His Holy Spirit is my comforter. It has nothing to do with submitting to any authority. We don’t believe the same as you do, period. Has nothing to do with authority.

[B-Chan]

Yes, it does. Every non-Catholic form of Christianity boils down to “Ah ain’t a-gonna let no Eye-Talian pope tell me whut tuh do. Ah’ll read thuh Bye-buhll an’ be mah OHNE pope.”

Hence, the hundreds of Christian denominations, each convinced that it alone is the true Church.

If you believe differently than the Catholic Church teaches, you believe wrongly. Period. That being said, I know that a just God will rightly judge each of us on the Last Day. Please pray that my own errors and stupid pride will not condemn me.

[HarleyD]

It is the wild mischaracterization of the faith of others that brands you as either ignorant or deliberately aiming to offend.

I'm sorry if it offends but it isn't a mischaracterization. We are told repeatedly by Catholics that Catholics trust the Church for their interpretation. If that isn't placing your faith in something, I don't know what is.

Yes, and the tiniest amount of humility or concession to the others' sincere differences would help immensely.

Would it help if I typed smaller?

We have heard your ignorant and ill-formed opinion about our faith. We don't agree. Please just stop acting like bulls in china shops.

Er...weren't we talking about humility a minute ago. OOOOOHHHHH!!!! I get it. It's me that is suppose to be humble. For other people it doesn't apply.

My "ignorant" and "ill-formed opinions" comes from the very simple language of the scriptures. I don't know much except what I can read with my own eyes. When it states things like:

Exo 20:3-5 You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make to yourselves any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them. For I Jehovah your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation of those that hate me,

I take it to mean that God 1) doesn't want us to be making statues of anyone and 2) doesn't want us to bow down to statues. I know some may say that's OK. Heck, I know the Church might even have a bunch of church "fathers" who agree that it's hokey-dokey. But I value what is in the scriptures just a tad more than what a bunch of old men or a catechism tells me.

[HarleyD]

The problem HarleyD is this -- you have NO credibility, NO authority to teach and you are preaching to those who have been taught by the Apostles and their appointed successors. We actually HAVE the complete knowledge you are trying to, in your own feeble way, teach us. But since you learned a flawed and man-centered mockery of the faith, your teaching us simply isn't credible.

I will say this in the most sincere and loving way that I possibly know how. What Catholics believe to have been taught by the Apostles is nothing more than a sham that has been distorted over 1500 years of history. Contrary to your understanding of how I arrived at my understanding, I used many of the church fathers and simply traced the historical path of the gospel. Few Catholic beliefs were EVER taught by the Apostles. What Catholics really rest their faith upon is a bunch of men voting what is right or not; sometimes they voted wrongly.

I'm not concerned that I may have "no credibility". Nor do I claim to be a preacher or teacher of which I am neither. All I can say is what is clearly written in scripture. That is simply what God requires of me.

Catholics try to be faithful to what the Church tells them the scriptures states. I try to be faithful to what is clear in the scriptures. God will judge what is right.

[narses]

“Nor do I claim to be a preacher or teacher of which I am neither”

No you are not and yet you keep trying to act like one. Somehow you have discovered the TRUTH that has been hidden for 15 centuries? Hidden in plain sight no less, in the Holy Writ.

Do I trust you or the very Church that codified, collected and taught from Holy Writ during the first centuries of the One True Church? Sorry Harley, you are that tiny and tinny cymbal that the Gospel speakes of. Our Lord founded ONE Holy and Apostolic Church. You reject that Truth. Very sad.

Out of curiosity Harley, are you a cult of one or is there a denomination that expresses your particular belief system well enough that byou identify with them?

[narses]

Well said. Thanks.

[narses]

Thanks.

[reagandemocrat]

Nice post, B-Chan.

You just might make a monarchist outta me. (Um, not really, that was the drink talkin’)

[B-Chan]

Join the Purple Side, Luke.

[SoothingDave]

It is the wild mischaracterization of the faith of others that brands you as either ignorant or deliberately aiming to offend.

I'm sorry if it offends but it isn't a mischaracterization. We are told repeatedly by Catholics that Catholics trust the Church for their interpretation. If that isn't placing your faith in something, I don't know what is.

It's the same argument over and over. You can't seem to recognize that we believe God uses people, things, and yes, the Church as His instruments.

Until you learn to fathom this concept (not agree with it, just understand it) you will forever repeat the same slander to ears that pity you for your shallow caricature of the Faith.

Short story: we can believe God uses the Church as His instrument while still believing in God as the ultimate source of our faith. If I were to say you were a "Bibliolator" and that you had faith in the Bible instead of God, you'd rightly accuse me of not seeing where your ultimate faith lies.

Do us the same favor, huh?

Er...weren't we talking about humility a minute ago. OOOOOHHHHH!!!! I get it. It's me that is suppose to be humble. For other people it doesn't apply.

What exactly is un-humble about me asking you to please give it a rest? We don't agree.

[Marysecretary]

I believe wrongly only because your church says I do. The true church is the body of Christ, each believer. Yes, the majority do belong to a church because God created the church for our well being, fellowship and teaching. But it’s not the Catholic church. That’s where we part company.

If you have Jesus Christ in your heart and you believe on Him, you won’t be condemned, B-Chan. Love, Mxxx

[HarleyD]

No you are not and yet you keep trying to act like one.

Oh, and how is that suppose to be?

Sorry Harley, you are that tiny and tinny cymbal that the Gospel speakes of.

Perhaps. But then it may be this is true:

Rom 1:22-23 Professing to be wise, they became fools and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.

Out of curiosity Harley, are you a cult of one or is there a denomination

Yes, there can be many who can be part of a cult and still think they are serving God. The only way you know is through the scriptures-not by what someone in the cult would say. Wouldn't you agree?

[motoman]

As expected, no rebuttals to these indisputable scriptural passages. As usual, those who have severed themselves from the one and Holy Priesthood of Jesus Christ, are not able to reconcile their man-made version of Christian worship with these truths of the Eucharist.

[wagglebee]

As I pointed out later in the thread (or perhaps it was the other since there were two Transubstantiation thread going at the same time), in addition to Catholics, the Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans and Methodists all accept the Real Presence to some degree. This accounts for nearly three-quarters of Christians worldwide. That means that those who deny Him in the Eucharist are clearly in the minority and should ask themselves why they think their beliefs from the 16th Century or later are so out of line with Christianity as a whole.