Posted on 02/18/2008 5:53:58 AM PST by Alex Murphy
AS THE priest began his sermon, he had trouble with the sound system, and muttered, "There's something wrong with this microphone." To which the congregation automatically replied, "And also with you."
That joke, told to me by a priest, takes off from the ritual exchange between priest and Mass-goers: "The Lord be with you," answered by "And also with you." It assumes a certain level of communication between clergy and congregation - the use of a common language.
The second most important change to take place in the Catholic Church in my lifetime was the substitution of vernacular tongues for Latin in the Mass. When it is the whole people saying, "And also with you," instead of a solitary altar boy reciting "Et cum spiritu tuo," nothing less than the democratic principle is being affirmed. The liturgy is not the private property of the clergy, with the laity mere observers. Instead, this worship is an action of the entire community, one of whom is the priest, who serves as its facilitator. From a seemingly incidental shift in language followed profound theological adjustments, as well as the start of a new structure of authority.
The Latin Mass is at issue again, with the Vatican having last week formally reauthorized the so-called Tridentine Mass, a Latin ritual the rubrics of which were set by the Council of Trent in the 16th century. Any open-minded person can affirm a diversity of practices in a worldwide organization like the Catholic Church, and, as the classic musical compositions show, there was a stark beauty to the ancient liturgy. But more is at stake in this return of Latin than mere aesthetics. Those pushing for a reauthorization of the Tridentine Mass want to roll back the whole Catholic reform, from nascent democracy to the theological affirmation
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
It’s hard for me to conceive that anyone can engage in twisted thinking like this without consciously trying to do evil. Carroll is just not right in the head.
Let's just say he has "issues" with the Church.
Ah, James Carroll — just as dense as ever, it seems . . . kind of reassuring to know there’s something in this world you can count on! ;-)
James Carroll is being ‘pimped out’ by the liberal and secular press for their own ends - that being the vilification of anything having to do with God or religion.
>> When it is the whole people saying, “And also with you,” instead of a solitary altar boy reciting “Et cum spiritu tuo,” nothing less than the democratic principle is being affirmed. <<
Democracy is for secular government. Thank God that His grace isn’t democratic, but the superabundance merciful. Where democracy demanded, “crucify him,” God’s grace declared, “I so loved the world, that I gave my only son.”
Yes, James Carroll is indeed an ex-priest. He was the chaplain of the Newman Center at Boston University back in the 70s, when I was in grad school there. I went to one Mass (pr should I say "Mass"?) there -- he couldn't be bothered with anything so arcane as a chasuble; I don't remember whether he bothered with a stole. I do remember a lot of sitting around on the floor -- yes, including "Father" Carroll during the "Mass"!
Thank you, Alex, for finding the most absurd and ridiculous ‘Catholic’ news story and posting it, as a non-Catholic, to the forum. Your animosity towards any and everything Catholic is well observed through your penchant for these postings.
And who better to do it than the current bishop in Rome, who seems to reaffirm Trent every chance he gets?
"Rome has not essentially changed. Rome declared that what it said at the time of the Reformation was infallible and could not change. Declared it to be irreformible truth. Rome has not changed and precious truths of God's word are still worth upholding even at the cost of unity even at the cost of being considered "troublemakers" in the religious world. We need to guard the antithesis against the destructive error of Rome." -- Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen, From a tape, THE REFORMATION, October 28, 1990.
James Carroll’s “Constantine Sword” is an excellent read.
Pissed alot of people off but, oh well. His take was spot on.
Please do not use potty language on the Religion Forum.
It's hard to refrain from saying "James Carroll" when he's the author of the piece being commented on ...
;'}
James Carroll. that was easy.
It's hard to refrain from saying "James Carroll" when he's the author of the piece being commented on ...
I rest my case. But next time I'll try and rest it cleaner.
Ewwwwww .... now I need to wash my hands and keyboard.
some forms of potty language are hard to avoid.
Sort of like discussing lousy reporters without mentioning Adam Clymer.
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