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To: Arthur McGowan
I was referring to the act of kissing the Koran. I don’t, personally, think it was a good idea. I don’t have to believe it was a good idea just because it was the Pope who did it.

At least we agree on that. But you can't yet grasp that he committed blaspheme by doing so because he honors the god of Islam which is a false god. I undestand that to admit to that is to admit to a major flaw in your belief system.

ANYONE who says, I believe in an infinite being, perfectly good, changeless, the creator of the universe—that person believes in God. It is nonsense to say that he believes in some OTHER GOD. There is only one infinitely perfect being.

By your definition, then the god of Islam is NOT the One True God. The god of Islam is NOT a perfectly good god, nor is he changeless. The god they beleive in, that is, to use the biblical sense of the word, the god they put their total trust in, is not a good god. He is a god that commands them to murder and to lie and to steal and to commit adultry and gives his ok on pedeophilia. (sp?). Actually, if you had not added the phrase perfectly good, it could very easily be shown that many who would actually made that statement does not know the one true God.

Have you ever done any research on the god of Islam??? I would be willing to wager that you have not from the statement that you made. Surely you would NOT make that statement if you have read much about Islam at all. There are many, many references online that show that the god of Islam is NOT the God of Abraham. This online book, "Prophet of Doom" very clearly shows that it is not. And it gives links to much of the koran so one can decide themselves.

Deists also believe in an infinite being, perfectly good, changeless and the creator, but they don't have salvation either. A person could say that they are in "firstplace" before all other unbelievers, but that still doesn't give them eternal life.

The God of Abraham, the God of the Bible, the God who became man, is not just an infinite being, perfectly good, changeless and the creator. He is much much more. And His invisible attributes are evident to all (Romans 1). He is also kind, slow to anger, merciful, holy, righteous, just, gracious, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and He is a very personal God. That is not the god of Islam.

Muslims are screwed up about WHO is God’s authentic prophet. They honor a violent, even satanic, non-prophet, and fail to honor Jesus, who, as God Incarnate, is the perfect and final prophet. In hating the Jews, they hate the people who WERE chosen by God to experience authentic revelation and prepare the way for the Incarnation.Muslims are wrong about practically everything having to do with God and His activities in history.

Agree, EXCEPT that by honoring Mohammed, by believing in him, they then believe in and accept the god that he depicts. The god of Islam is not perfectly good, not at all. Do some research.

But it is meaningless to say that “their” God is literally a DIFFERENT GOD. First of all, any “god” other than the true God is non-existent. And any person who believes in God as infinitely perfect, infinitely good, and the creator of all things, may have all kinds of things wrong, but is at least REFERRING TO the true God when he says “God.”

No, it is not meaningless at all. You are right though, the other "god" does not exist in the literal sense, but it does in their belief. Just as the gods and idols that represented them in the OT did/do not really exist, but that is still who the "ites" all worhsipped. The Asherim pole was a symbol of the goddess that the Caanites worshipped. The goddess does not exist, but still, that is where they put their allegiance, that is what/who they trusted for their peace and security. Just as the Muslims do in their god, allah.

We KNOW these are false gods, but they do not. That is one reason why you see the phrase, TRUE God Jeremiah 9,10. Why would Jesus Himself pray for His children that they know the only True God in which to find eternal life in John 17? You seem to think that because one believes in one God, that it MUST be the True God?

Your story about Mike and Joe is nice, but your analogy has fundamental flaws. Joe and Mike are not the same. Your analogy works for the many different denominations in Christianity, but not without Christianity. Just because their false god has been "given" a few of the attributes of the One True God, does not make it the same when so many of the attributes of the false islamic god are evil. By your definition, then the "great white spirit" and the pantheism idea of new ages is also the one true God.

God's "plan" of salvation is that all of those who call on His Name, knowing that it is He and He alone that can provide atonement for their sins and redeem them from evil have and trust in Him and Him alone to have accomplished that, knowing that it is the One True God, and Him alone, has eternal life. Where a person was before then does not matter.

However, the catchesism in question does not say that, it says that Muslims have firstplace among many because they believe in the same God. They don't (nowhere in scripture does any gentile group have precedence over another - unless you can show one), and they simply do not believe in the same God. That is the bottom line. Do your research, read on what the god of islam is REALLY like, THEN, come back and we can discuss it.

557 posted on 07/16/2007 7:42:44 AM PDT by lupie
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To: lupie

Let me rephrase my main point: “Allah” is not a “false god” in the same sense as, say, Jupiter. Jupiter is simply a fictitious person. He simply does not exist.

“Allah,” on the other hand, is the name given to God by Muslims.

Do they believe a host of false, monstrous things about “Allah” and how to serve him? Absolutely.

My main point was simply that “Allah” is a very impoverished, irrational, distorted notion of God—but Muslims do believe in the one actual God, not some figure of pure fiction, like Jupiter.

That does mean that Mohammed ever had any revelations from the one, true God! In fact, it seems to many who have studied Mohammed far more deeply than I ever have, that some of the “religious” experiences he had are attributable to mental illness and/or demonic activity.


579 posted on 07/17/2007 2:34:50 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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