To which I have replied, several times to the effect that. "And the teaching is that the Muslim worship the God of Abraham. They do not. That is very obvious to those who know the Shepherds voice. The action of kissing the koran is just an exclamation point to that teaching. How very sad, to say the least, that all those who are to be called RC are to believe in thatm that they HAVE to believe such a lie - the evil, lying, murdering god of Islam is the God of the bible. It doesn't make any difference to me WHO or WHAT teaches that, but it is wrong, dead wrong.But when the Pope merely repeats something that the Church has always taught, Catholics have to agree with him. Not because HE said it, but because the Church has always taught it."
I said that because you had said: But when the Pope merely repeats something that the Church has always taught, Catholics have to agree with him. Not because HE said it, but because the Church has always taught it. So, here we have you now saying: No Catholic has to believe that. No Catholic has to believe that the Pope was correct to kiss the Koran--regardless of what the Pope intended to signify by doing so. Catholics are not required to agree with the Pope about EVERYTHING he says or does. They are required to believe what he says when he repeats what the Church has always believed and taught.
The fact that the RCC catechism teaches that the Muslim god is the same God of the bible is obvious. Then you say that what the "church" teaches is what an RC MUST believe, no matter what the pope does. Here, the pope just affirmed that he believed the koran teaches a god that is the God of the bible (it is not - not at all!). And since you say you must believe what the "church" teaches (and the pope affirmed - about which there was no outcry of blaspheme, as should have been), so now you are saying that all RC's MUST believe that the evil, lying, murdering, adulterous and pedophiles commanding god of Islam is the Almighty God. That sir, is very very wrong.
May I again quote Proverbs 17:15: He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the LORD.
and also Isaiah 5:20:Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
Like it or not, both the catechism of RCC and the one pope who confirmed it by kissing the Koran, (again, without a cry of outrage) has indeed called evil good. How then can someone have any respect for them as a so-called world leader of Christianity and has any credibility whatsover to say what is a proper "church" and what is not?
I was referring to the act of kissing the Koran. I don’t, personally, think it was a good idea. I don’t have to believe it was a good idea just because it was the Pope who did it.
With regard to whether “Allah” is “God”:
ANYONE who says, I believe in an infinite being, perfectly good, changeless, the creator of the universe—that person believes in God. It is nonsense to say that he believes in some OTHER GOD. There is only one infinitely perfect being.
What people can be wrong about is whether God spoke to a particular prophet, or whether God favors some particular people. They can be wrong about what historic events were interventions by God.
Muslims are screwed up about WHO is God’s authentic prophet. They honor a violent, even satanic, non-prophet, and fail to honor Jesus, who, as God Incarnate, is the perfect and final prophet. In hating the Jews, they hate the people who WERE chosen by God to experience authentic revelation and prepare the way for the Incarnation.
Muslims are wrong about practically everything having to do with God and His activities in history.
But it is meaningless to say that “their” God is literally a DIFFERENT GOD. First of all, any “god” other than the true God is non-existent. And any person who believes in God as infinitely perfect, infinitely good, and the creator of all things, may have all kinds of things wrong, but is at least REFERRING TO the true God when he says “God.”
If a man has two groups of acquaintances, and one knows him as “Joe” and other knows him as “Mike,” it is nonsensical to say, “Those people are talking about two different men.” They may not agree on anything ABOUT “Joe” and “Mike,” but they are referring to the SAME PERSON. It is in that sense that Muslims worship “the God of Abraham.” They don’t worship Him AS the God of Abraham. They don’t worship God AS the Trinity, either. But it is the same God, no matter how impoverished and distorted their understanding is.
Muslims have no understanding of what God revealed about Himself to Abraham and his descendants. They know and understand nothing about who Jesus really is. The Catechism is NOT saying that Muslims have a “place in God’s plan” in the sense that God has revealed Himself to Mohammed as He revealed Himself to Abraham, but only in the sense that Muslims do believe some core truths about God, picked up (and garbled) from Judaism and Christianity.
In the Catechism’s sense, ATHEISTS have a place in God’s plan—i.e., not that atheism is actually good for anybody, but that God undoubtedly wishes atheists, and Muslims, and all other people to progress in some way toward knowing the truth, and is undoubtedly pleased when they SINCERELY seek the truth, however poor the results may be.
The bottom line: The Catechism is not asserting precisely what you are saying it asserts.