Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons
Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.
Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.
Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.
It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.
As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.
The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".
Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.
The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.
The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.
At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.
Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.
He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.
Thank you for your kind words. If I continue to have a little free time, yes, I would like to continue the conversation. Life slowed down a tad in the last week or so and looks to pick up a bit.
No and Yes
I think someone needs to open their bible.
Most ex-catholics that I’ve met, a couple within our Anglican parish tell us they became Anglicans to find Christ,to begin a true relationship with him and to finally begin to learn more about scripture.
Not my words, it is theirs.
If I were a parishioner in the catholic church, I think I’d be just a bit miffed at such staggering atrocities against innocents and the dollar figures attached rather than who is the real true church.
Yea, that’s a kinda spiteful remark. The diocese will be settling with five hundred victims.
Somethings awful wrong when the church perpetuated these criminal acts throughout the nation by shifting these priest from parish to parish in an attempt to keep it all covered up.
I think the catholic church needs to remove the plank from their eye before making such damaging statements to the body of Christ such as the one the “infallible pope” just spouted.
**the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches “in the proper sense” because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.**
Says it all in a nutsehll!
The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
There are also Biblical references in these two links about the specific topics. Before you respond, please check it out. Thanks in advance.
Leisure is an element of luxury. Yes, he lives the life of a public person, so that everything needed to carry out his duties is taken care of by those around him. His meals are simple—prepared by professional nuns.
But that’s not what you were saying. You were saying that the whole thing is a racket, providing those at the top with luxury, provided by the nickels and dimes of the abjectly poor.
I disagree with the core theses of Protestantism, but I don’t believe, and repeat, vicious slurs against Protestants. “Bigotry” is not the same as disagreement.
Except the freedom to do what he wanted for many years--to retire to Germany and continue his theological research and writing in peace and quiet. Pope JPII insisted that Ratzinger continue as prefect of the CDF, and then Ratzinger was elected Pope, something he did not seek.
I will repeat: You posted an anti-Catholic slur. Not a statement about how or why you disagree with Catholic thought or teaching, just a low, juvenile slur.
I don’t know what people are so upset about. I didn’t care what the pope said last year, and I don’t rea;;y care about what he said last week.
The statement the Pope just made has no connection with whether priests or bishops are virtuous. The Pope’s statement was about the nature of the Church—its hierarchical structure. The recent scandals were caused by the fact that a significant number of bishops and priests are corrupt, wicked men. Nothing the Pope said about the Protestant churches was demeaning or damaging. Nothing the Pope said, for instance, implies that any Protestant is less than a virtuous, holy Chrisian. Some are, some aren’t. What they don’t have is a sacrificing, ministerial priesthood. They already KNEW they didn’t—so why should anyone be shocked or offended by the Pope’s re-emphasizing that this is the major difference between the Catholic Church and most other Christian bodies?
Ping
If the nun said what you remember her as saying, she was teaching heresy.
Alice von Hildebrand wrote recently about this issue: There's entirely too much focus on "salvation" when talking about the Church/churches. Our primary purpose ON EARTH is to glorify God. We do that by knowing, loving, and serving God through the fulfillment of our duties. We can do that only if we know the truth about God and about ourselves.
The Catholic Church has NEVER taught that only registered Catholics are saved. What the Catholic Church DOES teach is that those whose knowledge of God is partial, or whose knowledge of how God wants us to serve Him is partial, or whose knowledge of what is truly good for human nature is distorted, cannot glorify God as He truly deserves.
THIS is sufficient reason to spread the gospel and engage in missionary activity. The Universal Call to Holiness cannot be properly answered by those who have only part of the truth and part of the means of grace--i.e., ALL of the sacraments.
It is NOT true that, if one admits that non-Catholics or even the unbaptized, can be SAVED, then all motivation for spreading the gospel collapses.
That is what the Feeneyites constantly proclaim. It is part of their heresy--this exclusive focus on SALVATION, that makes Feeneyism a form of Protestantism.
All Protestant ministers and Anglican priests who have been received into the Catholic Church, and who wished to serve as Catholic priests, have been ORDAINED as Catholic priests, after their reception into the Church. Nothing the Pope said has any bearing on those men.
She may have been ignorant of the facts herself, and passed this on to at least one classroom filled with many students. Those with two Catholic parents had no reason to grieve.
I brought it up at the dinner table that evening...I was upset by what I had learned that day, I don't remember what my intelligent mother said, but she completely relieved my mind.
Yes, I do remember the experience, and I'm sure others have stories of their own to tell.
In fairness, I have to say that I received an excellent education, by the sisters, through my twelve years of Catholic schooling. Thank you, Sisters!
I look forward to it. May He keep you in Him this week.
My comments were not meant to demean or wound. I am simply pointing out the sinfulness of man.
For man to stand and proclaim such things as the pope just did is in of itself fallible.
If one seeks to live a life that honors the Father through our savior Jesus Christ by the power of HIS Holy Spirit......then they are the body of Christ.
Although I love the liturgy, tradition, sacraments that are observed in the catholic church, I do not feel that a “man” apostolic succession or not, should make such foolish statements.
It serves nothing more than to create division, confusion among the unchurched, and wound Christ body worldwide.
Jesus knew back then they didn’t totally get it, and I’m sure he is shakin his head at all this now.
Just my lil ol opinion.
Blessings
Are you saying that I think the Pope eats at the expense of the poor third worlders who support the expense of the Vatican?
If so, I won’t disagree with you.
The largest religious organizations are often the ones that give Christians a bad name.
Although we can make jokes about Baptists who won’t recognize each other going in an out of the liquor stores, and that they won’t make love in the shower lest anyone thinks that they’re dancing, we can’t lay the Inquisition or Crusades on them, now can we?
Read the Catholic Encyclopedia sometime to see some of the interesting hypocracies of the RC church.
And read the Bible sometime to discover that Mary wasn’t a virgin when Jesus was born, is dead, stone cold dead and does not pass on prayer requests, and is not an object for prayer and worship.
There is one God and one mediator between man and God the man Christ Jesus.
Continue burning candles, counting beads, praying to statues and dead people for it is all just different forms of idolatry.
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