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To: Campion
Well, let's see, so far using exactly the same Greek bible site you reference, I've verified that Mark 16:2 says "early on the first day of the week, after sunrise" and John 20:1 says "after the Sabbath, early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark", and Luke 24:1 says "on the first day of the week, at early dawn"

Which proves exactly my entire point.

We'll take "em" one by one. Mark 16:2 is speaking of a different group of women. If you notice this group in verse 8 flee from the tomb trembling and bewildered... telling no one. Mary Magdalene and friends who have visited earlier at sundown the previous afternoon, run.... filled with joy, telling the Apostles [Matthew 28:8]. They tell the Apostles in [Luke 24:9-10]. In [John 20:2] they run and tell the Apostles.

The Sabbath spoken of in Mark 16:1 is the first Sabbath of Unleavened Bread and is the Special Sabbath mentioned by John in 19:31. It would have occurred on a Wednesday evening /Thursday that year and is the same Sabbath that Joseph of Arimethia was attempting to entomb the body by in [Luke 23:50-54]. Mark 16:1 should actually be listed as Mark 15:48 as it continues the continuity of the scriptures in chapter 15.

Remember, chapters and verses are not divinely inspired and were left to hands of fallible men to construct.

With reference to your "early at dawn" on the "first day of the week". Dawn is an interesting word in the Greek. It is "Epiphosko" and indeed, one of the uses of this word is the day becoming light. In this particular verse in Luke 24 it means something else. The only other place in scripture where you will find the word "Epiphosko" is Luke 23:54 and the Sabbath was drawing on (beginning).

So, you see, the dawning of the first day of the week means the beginning of the first day of the week....not early morning sunrise. The Hebrews began their days at sunset. Epiphosko meant sundown in Luke and John even clarifies it further by saying it was dark.

so either you don't consider Mark, Luke, and John to be scriptural, or your exegesis of Matthew is subject to considerable dispute.

I consider the Gospels to be very divinely inspired but even Papias in section six says be careful when you read Mark as it is sometimes not in the correct order....he only wrote what he heard Peter say as he was not an eyewitness.

You folks need to dump that Magesterium....and probably hire me!

14 posted on 07/27/2006 4:08:26 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618; Campion
The Sabbath spoken of in Mark 16:1 is the first Sabbath of Unleavened Bread and is the Special Sabbath mentioned by John in 19:31. It would have occurred on a Wednesday evening /Thursday that year and is the same Sabbath that Joseph of Arimethia was attempting to entomb the body by in [Luke 23:50-54]. Mark 16:1 should actually be listed as Mark 15:48 as it continues the continuity of the scriptures in chapter 15.

Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead.

The early Church Fathers compared the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of the rite of circumcision, and from that they demonstrated that if the apostles abolished circumcision (Gal. 5:1-6), so also the observance of the Sabbath must have been abolished. The following quotations show that the first Christians understood this principle and gathered for worship on Sunday.  

From The Didache

"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

From The Letter of Barnabas

"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

18 posted on 07/27/2006 5:29:27 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Diego1618
"You folks need to dump that Magesterium....and probably hire me!"

Bible church personal interpretation of the above:

"You folks need to dump that Magesterium....and probably hire me....

...to lead you all down into the Smoking Section."
19 posted on 07/27/2006 5:41:40 PM PDT by dollars_for_dogma
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To: Diego1618
You folks need to dump that Magesterium....and probably hire me!

The sad thing is you're probably serious. Who do I trust? Jesus, Peter, Matthew, Mark, John, Luke, etc. or Diego1618?
25 posted on 07/27/2006 7:09:58 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Diego1618
Dawn is an interesting word in the Greek. It is "Epiphosko" and indeed, one of the uses of this word is the day becoming light. In this particular verse in Luke 24 it means something else. The only other place in scripture where you will find the word "Epiphosko" is Luke 23:54 and the Sabbath was drawing on (beginning).

So, you see, the dawning of the first day of the week means the beginning of the first day of the week....not early morning sunrise. The Hebrews began their days at sunset. Epiphosko meant sundown in Luke and John even clarifies it further by saying it was dark.

Unfortunately, I have no knowledge of Greek, but I did decide to look up your citation to Luke 23:54, and found the reference to "drawing on" that you speak of. Strong's dictionary lists the word Epiphosko as such:

"A form of G2017; to begin to grow light: - begin to dawn, X draw on."

and for convenience, 2017 is:

"A form of G2014; to illuminate (figuratively): - give light."

This says to me that the word refers to the time as it is transitioning from dark to light, namely, what we consider to be dawn. This would be early in the morning on the first day of the week, as a plain reading of the text suggests.

It must certainly be from the plain reading and not solely from the Catholic Magisterium, because the last time I checked, the vast majority of Protestants worship on Sunday for the same reason that Catholics do. Why should I (or anyone else) agree with your novel rendering when neither the Strong's dictionary (well respected among Protestants) nor the vast majority of nearly 2000 years of Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant) agree with you?

You seem to want to have it both ways. You say that something is literal where the plain reading suits you, and you say that it is either figurative or means something that isn't plain where the plain reading doesn't suit you.

53 posted on 07/27/2006 10:38:55 PM PDT by GCC Catholic
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