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To: annalex; NYer
Thanks for the ping. I liked the article and think the ideas apply to us as well.

It seems that the woman's will -- in cooperation with Christ's divine presence, utterly passive in this case, -- effects her salvation.

That's interesting in this case because we have to ask ourselves what the cause was for her to act. It seems that Jesus gave credit not to her decision to touch His garment, but rather to her faith, which she already had. Jesus makes no statement akin to pronouncing her saved because of what she did. So, what effect on the woman's salvation would you say this event had? It appears she already knew (and was right) ahead of time that her plan would work.

The story teaches that the woman's faith made her whole, but it also teaches that Christ's garment, in itself and regardless of the woman's disposition, has made her faith complete to fruition. His garment was a sacrament.

What in the story leads you to think that Christ's garment brought her faith to fruition? Her faith told her that it would work. When Jesus said "Go in peace" to comfort her, she was never afraid of Jesus, she was afraid of the crowd noticing her.

17 posted on 07/04/2006 3:33:41 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
What in the story leads you to think that Christ's garment brought her faith to fruition? Her faith told her that it would work.

Well, she wasn't cured before she touched the hem of his garment. The action followed the faith, it didn't precede it.

18 posted on 07/04/2006 3:56:41 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: Forest Keeper; NYer; Judith Anne
I will get to the Erasmus thread tomorrow. This is the passage in question (Douay):

... a great multitude followed [Jesus], and they thronged him. 25 And a woman who was under an issue of blood twelve years,

26 And had suffered many things from many physicians; and had spent all that she had, and was nothing the better, but rather worse, 27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the crowd behind him, and touched his garment. 28 For she said: If I shall touch but his garment, I shall be whole. 29 And forthwith the fountain of her blood was dried up, and she felt in her body that she was healed of the evil. 30 And immediately Jesus knowing in himself the virtue that had proceeded from him, turning to the multitude, said: Who hath touched my garments?

31 And his disciples said to him: Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou who hath touched me? 32 And he looked about to see her who had done this. 33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. 34 And he said to her: Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole: go in peace, and be thou whole of thy disease.

(Mark 5)

It seems that Jesus gave credit not to her decision to touch His garment, but rather to her faith, which she already had. Jesus makes no statement akin to pronouncing her saved because of what she did. So, what effect on the woman's salvation would you say this event had? It appears she already knew (and was right) ahead of time that her plan would work

Certainly the woman had faith before she touched His garment (v 28). But she did not get whole until she did touch (v 29). This illustrates the Catholic distinction between declarative faith (which she had before deciding to touch the garment) and formed faith (which resulted in doing certian work: getting close in the crowd and reaching the garment). We believe that it is the faith accompanied by action,-- formed faith,-- in this case venerating Christ's garment, that "makes whole", that is, saves.

What in the story leads you to think that Christ's garment brought her faith to fruition?

The fact that she did not get whole until she touched it, and that the saving divine grace did not get dispatched to her till she did (vv 29, 30).

I took that to mean that the action we are talking about (completion to fruition) would have been on the woman's faith, not her medical condition. But I may have misinterpreted.

I think that in all healing episodes, while medical healing indeed takes place, the lesson to us is about spiritual healing of sin, i.e. achieving salvation. In this case, there was nothing medically therapeutic about the garment, -- it was not soaked in Tiger Balm, or such. She venerated the garment because it was worn by Christ; that is to say, her faith was expressed through work, and delivered salvation even outside of Christ's conscious involvement (v.30).

20 posted on 07/04/2006 2:05:59 PM PDT by annalex
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