Modern Bibles are the Result of Many Edits:

CanWest NS / National Post [Canada] ^ | Jennifer Green

[restornu]

Chaple Hill has a reputation as a lefty school!

Principal Areas of Research Interest: New Testament Interpretation; History of Ancient Christianity (first three centuries), especially Orthodoxy and Heresy, Formation of the Canon, NT Manuscript Tradition, Historical Jesus, and Apostolic Fathers;

Secondary Areas of Interest: Jewish-Christian Relations in Antiquity; Greco-Roman Religions; Christianization of the Roman World.

Bart Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor and Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University.

Prof. Ehrman completed his M.Div. and Ph.D. degrees at Princeton Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude. Since then he has published extensively in the fields of New Testament and Early Christianity, having written or edited nineteen books, numerous articles, and dozens of book reviews. Among his most recent books are a college-level textbook on the New Testament, two anthologies of early Christian writings, a study of the historical Jesus as an apocalyptic prophet (Oxford Univesity Press), and a Greek-English Edition of the Apostolic Fathers for the Loeb Classical Library (Harvard University Press).

Prof. Ehrman has served as President of the Southeast Region of the Society of Biblical literature, chair of the New Testament textual criticism section of the Society, book review editor of the Journal of Biblical Literature, and editor of the monograph series The New Testament in the Greek Fathers (Scholars Press). He currently serves as co-editor of the series New Testament Tools and Studies (E. J. Brill) and on several other editorial boards for monographs in the field.

Winner of numerous university awards and grants, Prof. Ehrman is the recipient of the 1993 UNC Undergraduate Student Teaching Award, the 1994 Phillip and Ruth Hettleman Prize for Artistic and Scholarly Achievement, and the Bowman and Gordon Gray Award for excellence in teaching.

[Calm_Cool_and_Elected]

It will be repeated on Monday, May 8 (not sure of the time) on the Nat'l Geographic Channel.

CC&E

[VeritatisSplendor]

Not every language calls the day Easter. German says Oster, but French Paque, Swedish Pask, Polish Pascha.

Mrs VS

[TaxRelief]

The Dead Sea Scrolls     Probably the most valuable of these documents is the `Isaiah Scroll`. Some 23 feet long and made of leather, it is a remarkable testimony to the textual accuracy of the Bible as we know it today. Modern methods of estimating the age of the scroll and its flax, or linen cover, reveal the fact that it is a transcription of the complete text of the book of Isaiah made in about 100 B.C.

NC *Ping*

Please FRmail Constitution Day, Alia OR TaxRelief if you want to be added to or removed from this North Carolina ping list.

[TaxRelief]

Some of the Dead Sea Scroll Translations available:

Directory to the Dead Sea Scrolls Collection: Introduction: The Story of the Scrolls Texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls Timetable of Dead Sea Scroll Scholarship Resources for Further Study Recommended Books   Return to: Gnostic Society Library Gnosis Archive                 Available in the Bookstore: The Dead Sea Scrolls - in several different editions

THE GNOSTIC SOCIETY LIBRARY DEAD SEA SCROLLS:  TEXTS Introduction to the Texts.. Working from many thousands of scroll fragments recovered in eleven caves near Qumran, researches have identified approximately 800 different original manuscripts.  A few scrolls were fairly intact when found, others have been tentatively pieced together, still more exist only as small scraps of parchment.  The preserved portions of a scroll often give only glimpses of what might have existed in the complete text.  (See the Introduction to the collection for more background information.) DSS texts are identified by a number and letter combination, indicating the cave from which they were recovered: "1Q" indicates the text was found in Qumran cave 1; "4Q" means found in Qumran cave 4.  This initial code is followed by either a second number (the catalog file number assigned to each fragment as it was  archived) or by a few letters that abbreviate an alternative name given to a fragment by researchers, usually the supposed title of the text.  Many important scrolls existed in more than one copy. Surviving pieces of these were sometimes found in different caves.  For example, the section of text from the Book of Secrets (listed below), is reconstructed from fragment 27 found in Qumran Cave 1 (1Q27) and fragments 299-301 of a different copy found in Qumran Cave 4 (4Q299-301).  A variety of literary forms can be identified among the surviving texts. Although there is no generally accepted system of categorizing the scrolls, roughly speaking the manuscripts fall into one or more of the following genres:  Biblical texts, pentateuchal stories and commentaries; legal and ritual texts; prophets stories and commentaries; psalms and poetry; wisdom literature; prophecy and apocalyptics (visions); sectarian literature; and "miscellaneous things that don't fit anywhere else".  Some texts can be assigned to several categories, depending on the subjective reading of the interpreter, which is why no system works very well. The great variety manifest in DSS texts has led some scholars to question whether a single sect at Qumran would have created or maintained such an apparently eclectic collection. Visit the Bookstore for a complete listing of current editions of the complete Dead Sea Scrolls in tranlation. Texts Archived in the Gnostic Society Library This is a varied collection of short texts, representative of several types of DSS literature. One will note several unique mythical motifs developed in the DSS manuscripts, as well as imaginative or visionary reworking of traditional themes.  Study of the DSS has given new understanding of how dynamic and heterodox Judaism was in the intertestamental period. The Divine Throne Chariot The Book of Secrets (1Q27, 4Q299-301) The Thanksgiving Psalms (1QHa) The Parable of the Bountiful Tree (4Q302a) A Baptismal Liturgy (4Q414) The Coming of Melchizedek (11Q13) Tongues of Fire (1Q29, 4Q376) The Book of Giants (4Q203, 1Q23, 2Q26, 4Q530-532, 6Q8) Texts Accompanying a Lecture by Vermes, Schiffman and Tov This series (The Dead Sea Scrolls with Rachel Kohn) was sponsored by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation in 2000.  The texts presented are accompanied by photographs of the original scroll fragment, a translation and a short commentary.  (Note that the commentaries are representative of traditional views about the DSS and their source in an Essene community living at Qumran.) Psalms 11Q5 Contains parts of 41 Biblical psalms, Apocryphal psalms (including the Apostrophe to Zion) and prose about the psalms written by King David. The Nahum Commentary 4Q169 Prophetic commentary which alludes to the history of a sect, presumed to be the Qumran Essenes, and names real historic figures. Community Rule 4Q260 Also known as The Manual of Discipline, it contains rules ordering the life of the sect presumed to have lived at Qumran and identified as Essenes by traditional interpreters of the DSS.. Acts of Torah 4Q394 Excerpt from a unique document in letter format, which outlines the religious laws peculiar to the sect, and in opposition to the law practiced by the Temple in Jerusalem. War Rule 11Q14 An original composition attributed to the Essene sect by traditional interpreters of the scrolls, containing what may be a vision of the "end of days" Exodus Fragment 4Q22 A fragment of Exodus 6:25-7:19 Texts Presented in the Library of Congress Exhibit The Dead Sea Scroll Exhibit at the Library of Congress included translations and high-quality photographs of selected sections of several scrolls.  Each is accompanied by a short commentary,   a complete physical description of the scroll or fragment, and a list of references. Psalms Tehillim Phylactery Tefillin The Community Rule Serkeh ha-Yahad Calendrical Document Mishmarot Some Torah Precepts Miqsat Ma`ase ha-Torah Enoch Hanokh Hosea Commentary Pesher Hoshe`a Prayer for King Jonathan Tefillah li-Shlomo shel Yonatan ha-Melekh Leviticus Va-Yikrah Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice Shirot `Olat ha-Shabbat Damascus Document Brit Damesek The War Rule Serekh ha-Milhamah Complete Scholarly Translations of Scroll Texts with Commentary Great Isaiah Scroll (Fred Miller) -- This site presents the most impressive internet presentation of a complete scroll from the DSS. While the site offers little of interest to a casual reader, it gives glimpses into the issues involved in the analysis and translation of a scroll. It includes black & white plates of each column of The Great Isaiah Scroll (one of the first seven scrolls found in Cave 1, and the oldest extant Hebrew biblical manuscript), along with detailed notes on the physical condition of the manuscript and comparison of its orthography and  wording with the standard Masoretic text. The technical discussions of the site are obviously intended for scholars familiar with Hebrew. Fragments of the Book of Enoch from Qumran Cave 7 (Ernest Muro) Again, a site of limited general interest.  It is dedicated to the detailed analysis of a tiny scroll fragment in Greek, once  argued (inaccurately, it appears) to be from a New Testament text. (Of course, the presence of a Christian text in the DSS find would have supported the original efforts to link the Qumran texts with Christian history; this tiny fragment of Greek text therefore became a focus of debate.) This site illustrates the complex task of reconstructing, identifying and then interpreting DSS fragments. It includes photos of the fragment with transcription and translation, as well as two articles (by E. Muro & E. Puech) refuting claims that these are fragments of New Testament texts. Paraphrases and Descriptions of Texts These useful paraphrases and descriptions of a large variety of DSS texts were apparently a student project for "Introduction to the Hebrew Scriptures", a course given at St. Joseph's University by Alan Humm.  Pentateuchal stories and commentaries Reworked Pentateuch (4QPPa=4Q158). Genesis Apocryphon Exhortation based on the Flood (4QFloodAp=4Q370). Vision of Jacob (4QAJa=4Q537). Legal and ritual texts Ritual Purity Laws (4QTohorota=4Q274). Psalms, Hymns, Poetry Apocryphal Psalms (4QPsf=4Q88, 4QapPs=4Q448, 11QPsa-b=11Q5-6). Thanksgiving Hymns #7 & 8 (1QH(odayot)a col.10). Wisdom Literature Wisdom Text (1Q26, 4QWisda) Collecton of Proverbs (4QWisd). Wiles of the Wicked Woman (4Q184). Prophecy and Apocalyptic The Chosen One (4Qelect, 4QarNC). Words of Michael (4Qmich, 6Qunidar). Miscellaneous Texts The New Jerusalem (1QJNar, 2QExc, 4QJMa, 5QJNar, 11QJN). The Copper Scroll (3QTreasurea). Physiognomic Horoscopes (4QCryptic-4Q186, 4QPhysiogn). Observances (4QCal (Mishmarot), 4QMMTa). Targum of Job (4QtgJob, 11QtgJob). Inventory of the Dead Sea Scrolls Manuscripts A comprehensive and useful Inventory of all the Dead Sea Scroll Manuscripts has been compiled by Mitchell A. Hoselton.   The Dead Sea Scrolls Collection at The Gnostic Society Library | Introduction | Texts | Timetable | Resources | Recommended Books | | Gnostic Society Library | Gnosis Archive |

[Amelia]

Thanks! I looked it up - 9 p.m. Eastern time. Also at some point on Tuesday, but I didn't look up the time for that one.

[Cvengr]

"All the recent stuff about Gnosticism, the Book of Judas, etc, is useful for a variety of reasons: they stand, first of all, as an example of an alternate point of view.."

Wombat,..from a purely soulish perspective without a living spirit from God, the above statement appears to be very reasonable. This fails to grasp the significance of Scripture, though, for the believer.

Once one has an initial relationship with God through faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit regenerates the spirit in the believer. As long as the believer remains in fellowship with God, through faith in Christ, the believer may continue to study the Word of God, which in turn is made understood to the believer in his soul, and in his spirit by the work of the Holy Spirit. This is the process of continuing sanctification and the daily inbreathing of Bible Doctrine via the Holy Spirit furthers the believers development in Christ.

This isn't simply an exercise in comparative theology or a process in only gnosis, but rather the edification of gnosis in the soul by the Holy Spirit (not the believer) is used to develop epignosis in the soul and in the spirit of the believer.

This is not something that is used as the basis of sanctification in communication that is not from God.

Accordingly, although one might be intellectually intriqued in a selfish fashion by extrabiblical texts, unless the Word is revealed by God Himself, it doesn't edify the thinking processes or the spirit of man.

In this sense, such thinking is really no different than any other thinking to a man prior to his salvation by God. We are all born condemned in that we are first dead to God with respect to the spirit and require some method by which He might change us so we come alive in the spirit to have a relationship with Him. That initial salvation simply comes by Him when we have a simple faith in Him, and He is then free to regenerate our spirit.

With respect to good, human morality is impotent in the face of divine judgment. Only divine righteousness will merit reward in heaven. Many may confuse human good with fallen Christians who seek morality over a relationship with God through a continuing faith in Him.

Hope this helps to explain why the 'Gospel of Judas' is considered generally insignificant to most believers, and perhaps even heretical in its delivery.

[TaxRelief]

Are you aware of the 1384 Wycliffe English translation? Once you get past the odd spellings, it is amazing how similar the fourteenth century text is to any modern day bible.

[Wombat101]

Thank you, but I don't consider the Book of Judas, for example, to be insignifigant. You have to remember that the first centuries of Christianity very often were consumed in, and shaped by, such philosophical differences and debates.

It may be insignigant because, in the end, the Gnostics lost the argument with in the Church, but from an historical viewpoint it is huge. How many people actually ever heard of Gnosticism, what it was, it's biggest defenders, it's greatest foes, prior to the Da Vinci Code (pure crap) or the more recent news reports vis-a-vis the Book of Judas. It is a very important period and philosopohy in the early development of the Christian faith.

Now, it's one thing to strictly adhere to all aspects of Scripture as an act of faith, it's an altogether different animal to trace the path that faith and Scripture took to it's modern form, warts and all. You can't know where you're going until you know where you've been. I think that the biggest concern to organized Christianity in regards to the Book of Judas, etc, is not that these writings exist or but that the insights or ideas they might provide might cause some to "leave the reservation".

[Diego1618]

There was no reason for Jesus and His disciples to celebrate "Easter," the Resurrection any sooner, as it hadn't HAPPENED YET!

According to the scriptures the resurrection occurred on the Sabbath....late. Verse 6 says He is risen!

Now, are you certain of your original statement? Why do you celebrate His resurrection on a Sunday morning? Scripture plainly tells us the resurrection happened on a late Saturday afternoon. I will agree with one thing....the pagans always celebrated "Easter" on a Sunday.

[tenn2005]

Scripture plainly tells us the resurrection happened on a late Saturday afternoon.

Scripture clearly tells us that the resurrection happened on the first day of the week. Mark 16:9

There are those who would like to deny Mark's statement by changing the punctuation but those same people contradict themselves. They want to claim that the women were present during the resurrection, based on Matt 28:1-6, but that they did not see Jesus until early on the first day of the week.,based on Mark 16:9. If the women had been there at the time of the resurrection they would have seen the resurrected Christ.

They fail to understand that Matthew is giving a summation while other writers are giving the details.

[DouglasKC]

There are those who would like to deny Mark's statement by changing the punctuation but those same people contradict themselves.

There is no punctuation to change. The greek text, from which most English texts are derived, has no punctuation. All punctuation is non-inspired. It's why translators translate Mark 16:9 differently:

(Webster) Now when Jesus was risen early, the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons.

(MSG) [After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning to Mary Magdalene, whom he had delivered from seven demons.

(KJV-1611) Now when Iesus was risen early, the first day of the weeke, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seuen deuils.

(CEV) Very early on the first day of the week, after Jesus had risen to life, he appeared to Mary Magdalene. Earlier he had forced seven demons out of her.

They want to claim that the women were present during the resurrection, based on Matt 28:1-6, but that they did not see Jesus until early on the first day of the week.,based on Mark 16:9. If the women had been there at the time of the resurrection they would have seen the resurrected Christ.

The bible clearly states that they did not see him at (or more correctly, just after) his resurrection:

Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

Mary did see him, in Galilee, very early on the first day of the week:

(CEV) Very early on the first day of the week, after Jesus had risen to life, he appeared to Mary Magdalene. Earlier he had forced seven demons out of her.

[Diego1618]

As an addition to my post #190....some folks try to say Mark 16:9 is proof of a Sunday morning resurrection. This is what it what it says. If you notice, the original Greek does not use punctuation....so you can just as easily say, "Now having risen, early first of the week He appeared first to Mary the Magdalene from whom he had cast out seven demons." The words that are bracketed are not in the original.

In addition to this, Mark 16:9-20 may have been added later by some dark ages monk to try and prove a Sunday morning resurrection.

As a final note....the women arrived at the tomb "Late on The Sabbath". Our Saviour had already risen. As the women were running from the tomb they met him and worshiped him. John verifies this in chapter 20:14-16. The women were not present at the resurrection....but arrived later.....yet still on the Sabbath, but now.... after sundown, it is the first day of the week when they greet the newly resurrected Saviour. This would be early Saturday evening "modern time". The notion of a Sunday morning resurrection was invented to "fit in" to the "Roman pagan celebration of Easter". And Easter always included a "Sunrise" service. John 20:1 confirms it was still dark.

[Old_Mil]

In the year 2006, whenever you see the words "scholars now say" preceeding a comment about Christianity, it's safe to disregard everything that follows.

[Old_Mil]

Moroni

I've always taken this name to be proof that either the devil - or Joseph Smith - had a sense of humor.

[Donald Meaker]

On the other hand, the fact that the "Holy Spirit" doesn not guide people making copies or translations of the scripture is fair to middling proof that that G-d does not exist.

Like, can't He pick up a phone and call?

[Donald Meaker]

Best scholarship? My thought is that the best scholarship pedigree would come from the Roman Catholics, they having been in business longer than most others.

They hold (per my copy of the New American Standard) that Mark may have been written that early, but Matthew almost certainly was not. Luke and John came later yet.

[Donald Meaker]

Of course Joseph Smith Jr. had his two stones to help him.

[MississippiMan]

From what I've heard, there was NO contemporary account of Christ's words - the earliest New Testament Gospel was written about 100 years after his death (presumably passed down orally until then - and we all know the problem about passing stories ...)

No. I'm sure others are offering up specifics for you in this thread, but no, that's definitely incorrect.

MM

[Donald Meaker]

CE is not meaningless, especially since the monk, (who about 900 CE decided to figure all dates back from when he thought the Birth of Christ occured) made a few errors. Luke dates the Birth with a census which occured about 6CE, and Matthew dates the Birth with the death of Herod the Great, say 4 BCE.

That is why scholars don't use AD. We don't know when it was, but we are pretty good at relating things to the Common timeline.

To be fair, the monk had a tough job. Each Roman emperor died when he died, and the last year of his rule was usually also the first year of the next emperor's rule. Emperors also claimed authority over the East, over the West, and some dated their documents based on when they became "Caesar" rather than when they became "Augustus". What we do have is a good solid timeline since the Roman Principate, in large part due to his work.