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1 posted on 01/12/2006 7:42:58 AM PST by Alouette
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2 posted on 01/12/2006 7:43:24 AM PST by Alouette (The Anti-Borg - You Will NOT be Assimilated!)
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To: Alouette

? What has this got to do with anything? Judas was hardly the only Jewish apostle. According to the chr*stians, they all were!


8 posted on 01/12/2006 8:16:34 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Lishu`atkha qivviti, HaShem!)
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To: Alouette

Hate to point this out, but Judas didn't point Christ out to "Roman Soldiers". He was taken by Temple troops from the Sanhedrin, and brought before Caihaphus [p/s?]. The Romans didn't get into the act until the next mrning [Good Friday], when Jesus was brought before Pontious Pilate, the Roman Procurator of Judea.


12 posted on 01/12/2006 8:22:02 AM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Alouette

I think I prefer Dante's interpretation of Judas' fate:

16 When we had gotten far enough along
17 that my master was pleased to let me see
18 the creature who was once so fair of face
19 he took a step aside, then brought me to a halt:
20 'Look there at Dis! And see the place
21 where you must arm yourself with fortitude.'
22 Then how faint and frozen I became,
23 reader, do not ask, for I do not write it,
24 since any words would fail to be enough.
25 It was not death, nor could one call it life.
26 Imagine, if you have the wit,
27 what I became, deprived of both.
28 The emperor of the woeful kingdom
29 rose from the ice below his breast,
30 and I in size am closer to a giant
31 than giants are when measured to his arms.
32 Judge, then, what the whole must be
33 that is proportional to such a part.
34 If he was fair as he is hideous now,
35 and raised his brow in scorn of his creator,
36 he is fit to be the source of every sorrow.
37 Oh, what a wonder it appeared to me
38 when I perceived three faces on his head.
39 The first, in front, was red in color.
40 Another two he had, each joined with this,
41 above the midpoint of each shoulder,
42 and all the three united at the crest.
43 The one on the right was a whitish yellow,
44 while the left-hand one was tinted like the people
45 living at the sources of the Nile.
46 Beneath each face two mighty wings emerged,
47 such as befit so vast a bird:
48 I never saw such massive sails at sea.
49 They were featherless and fashioned
50 like a bat's wings. When he flapped them,
51 he sent forth three separate winds,
52 the sources of the ice upon Cocytus.
53 Out of six eyes he wept and his three chins
54 dripped tears and drooled blood-red saliva.
55 With his teeth, just like a hackle
56 pounding flax, he champed a sinner
57 in each mouth, tormenting three at once.
58 For the one in front the gnawing was a trifle
59 to the clawing, for from time to time
60 his back was left with not a shred of skin.
61 'That soul up there who bears the greatest pain,'
62 said the master, 'is Judas Iscariot, who has
63 his head within and outside flails his legs.
64 'As for the other two, whose heads are dangling down,
65 Brutus is hanging from the swarthy snout --
66 see how he writhes and utters not a word! --
67 'and from the other, Cassius, so large of limb.
68 But night is rising in the sky. It is time
69 for us to leave, for we have seen it all.'

Inferno, Canto XXXIV


17 posted on 01/12/2006 8:41:44 AM PST by kjvail (Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta)
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To: Alouette
According to the London Times, a campaign led by Monsignor Walter Brandmuller, head of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Science, is aimed at persuading believers to look kindly at a man reviled for 2,000 years.

Mgr Brandmuller told fellow scholars it was time for a “re-reading” of the Judas story. He is supported by Vittorio Messori, a prominent Catholic writer close to both Pope Benedict XVI and the late John Paul II.

Signor Messori said that the rehabilitation of Judas would “resolve the problem of an apparent lack of mercy by Jesus toward one of his closest collaborators.”

He told La Stampa that there was a Christian tradition that held that Judas was forgiven by Jesus and ordered to purify himself with “spiritual exercises” in the desert.

Here we go again.

Man's tradition, again, trumps the Holy Word of G-d.

Worse yet, it is Gnostic ( secret spiritual exercises to gain access to Heaven ).

b'shem Y'shua

20 posted on 01/12/2006 8:50:37 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Trust in the YHvH for ever, for the LORD, YHvH is the Rock eternal. (Isaiah 26:4))
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To: Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Frumanchu
Judas Iscariot, the disciple who betrayed Jesus with a kiss, is to be given a makeover by Vatican scholars, according to the London Times.

After all the oddball stuff we were told yesterday, words absolutely fail me today. Another thread was just posted on the same subject here:

Judas The Misunderstood

21 posted on 01/12/2006 8:55:28 AM PST by Alex Murphy (Proverbs 12:10)
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To: Alouette

Really wondering about the thesis here.


29 posted on 01/12/2006 9:21:05 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All
Though not written by Judas, it is said to reflect the belief among early Christians — now gaining ground in the Vatican — that in betraying Christ Judas was fulfilling a divine mission

This idea supposedly "gaining ground in the Vatican" was condemned by the Council of Trent. Sorry about that, London Times.

30 posted on 01/12/2006 9:22:03 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Alouette

St. Judas Iscariot protect us.


32 posted on 01/12/2006 9:22:26 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: Alouette

since when are we a "victim" of our own sin??


33 posted on 01/12/2006 9:22:27 AM PST by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com/)
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To: Alouette
So far as I can find, there is no available copy of any "Gospel of Judas." It was mentioned by Irenaeus and was supposedly written between about 130-180 AD.

This, of course, has it appearing some 100 years after Judas' death.

45 posted on 01/12/2006 10:03:33 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Alouette

Jesus said it would have been better for Judas if he had never been born. That's pretty clear.


55 posted on 01/12/2006 10:36:57 AM PST by Rocky (Air America: Robbing the poor to feed the Left)
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To: Alouette

Have they forgotten he was also a theif and embezzler? John 12:4 - 6 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.


72 posted on 01/12/2006 12:51:07 PM PST by PAR35
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To: Alouette

The idea that Judas was blamed because he was Jewish is just nutty. Whoever titled this article does his readers a disservice; Vatican scholars debating a position doesn't constitute a "Vatican move".


85 posted on 01/12/2006 1:22:08 PM PST by Varda
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To: Alouette
Can't find anything about this anywhere on the web apart from The Times of London. It's a media beat up.

The only thing about which Brandmuller appears to have spoken recently, is Islam.

From Lepanto to Baghdad, There’s a Road that Leads through Rome.

86 posted on 01/12/2006 1:22:46 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: Alouette

Another advocation of biblical revisionism from one more stealth subverter within the RCC.


140 posted on 01/12/2006 4:37:00 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Alouette; jo kus; annalex; Petrosius; Cronos; Kolokotronis
What a crock! The author is confusing the Church with the Protestants. Authenitc Christianity knows that God's plan has been fulfilled (Jn 19:30)

Judas committed suicide, so even if he repented of his betrayal, he still went to hell.

143 posted on 01/12/2006 6:00:01 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Alouette
The move to clear Judas’s name coincides with plans to publish the alleged Gospel of Judas for the first time in English, German and French. Though not written by Judas, it is said to reflect the belief among early Christians — now gaining ground in the Vatican — that in betraying Christ Judas was fulfilling a divine mission, which led to the arrest and Crucifixion of Jesus and hence to man’s salvation, according to the London Times

Sounds like Gnostics are looing for some notoriety! Early "Christians" included all sorts of rag-tag self-appointed belevers in Christ. Is Elaine Pagels behind this? I wouldn't be surprised.

144 posted on 01/12/2006 6:05:27 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Alouette
According to St Luke, Judas was “possessed by Satan.”

Well, then there is nothing to correct. Gospels are not something you re-negotiate. Judas gave in to evil, plain and simple. The next thing the anti-Christian coalition will try will be to rehabilitate the Jewish High Priest and Pontius Pilate. I guess, they too were "fulfilling God's plan." Someone has been reading Calvin again.

145 posted on 01/12/2006 6:10:31 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Alouette

It would be better for Judas if he had never been born.


160 posted on 01/12/2006 8:07:25 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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