Posted on 11/05/2005 4:12:26 AM PST by bornacatholic
"We in America know the benevolence that is at the heart of Islam," declared Condoleezza Rice, addressing assembled Muslim dignitaries at the annual Ramadan dinner at the State Department — and provoking a second, consecutive examination in this column of the rhetoric of the most important US official next to the president.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
That's why there are Mohammedeans rioting in France and Denmark (and elsewhere)
Why do you suppose this administration says that Islam is the religion of peace and that benevolence that is at the heart of Islam? Could it be that if they told the truth that every Muslim in the USA would be killed by noon the day after?
"Why do you suppose this administration says that Islam is the religion of peace and that benevolence that is at the heart of Islam?"
Something to do with that black liquid stuff that the slammies have barrels and barrels of???
Not that this administration has any connection to the oil industry of course!
So your a war for oil idiot eh.
Nope - I just believe that its part of the human condition that when money and power are at stake, principles become inconvenient.
Additionally I think that liberal western democracies don't believe they can win against islam.
13 Centuries of real experience prove otherwise but don't expect them to turn their eyes from their lying Lava Lamps
So you think the liberals believe that wearing a burka won't be so bad after all?
WoW. I am glad I don't believe that sort of thing. Liberals are truely sad.
You're right, and it's to the United States and President Bush's credit, in particular, that this is the chosen path.
I've only known a few Moslems, but they were good and decent people, and I don't believe they ascribed to the Whabbist (sp?) interpretation of their book.
The Moslems find themselves in the same situation that the Germans found themselves in during WWII. It goes without saying that the Germans could have mounted a better war against Hitler and his execrable minions, but the only thing they could have done that with was their lives, wasn't it? They didn't have private ownership of weapons, did they?
I'm not trying to excuse their blind eyes, but I'm also loathe to say that we, here in America, would have reacted differently under the same set of circumstances. The importance of the 2A cannot be overestimated.
After Castro's coup, he exclaimed 'armas porque?', when the population asked for the right to bear arms, which he promised them would be restored, once he was established and in power.
I'm also not trying to exculpate the silence of the Moslems who would not have things as they presently are, I'm just saying that it's real easy to talk from a position of comfort and no risk. A Moslem who publicly speaks out against the Whabbists, endangers not only his own life, but that of his wife and his children as well.
"Not that this administration has any connection to the oil industry of course!"
Gee, Deacon, you don't think that Texas oilmen and little Condi would sell us down the river, do you?
You know, where I live there will be people who, for the first time in my life, will likely freeze to death this winter while the buddies of this administration will get richer and richer. A bad winter in this country and the Republicans can kiss power good-bye for the foreseeable future. At one point in time I thought that Rice might be a good choice for '08, especially if that excerable Hillary gets the Dem's nod...but I don't think that anymore. She and Bush are peddling the same rhetoric Clinton and that old hen Albright used while they bombed Belgrade on Orthodox Good Friday!
"She and Bush are peddling the same rhetoric Clinton and that old hen Albright used while they bombed Belgrade on Orthodox Good Friday!"
Yep! And while they think they are ingratiating themselves with these fifth columnists, the muslims simply see their rhetoric as a sign of weakness and surrender. They really don't understand the middle eastern mentality at all.
Islam is a religion of might and force, not peace. Words like mercy and forgiveness only have relevance if they are dealing with other muslims. The kaffir in the dar-el-harb must be forced into submission.
"Yep! And while they think they are ingratiating themselves with these fifth columnists, the muslims simply see their rhetoric as a sign of weakness and surrender. They really don't understand the middle eastern mentality at all.
Islam is a religion of might and force, not peace. Words like mercy and forgiveness only have relevance if they are dealing with other muslims. The kaffir in the dar-el-harb must be forced into submission."
Deacon, I've noticed over the years in Europe, all over Europe actually, that the idea that an immigrant could actually become part of the "volk" or "omogenia" of a given country is one given more lip service than actual application. What I mean is, in theory you for example could become a Greek citizen but you could never become a Greek. Now I have noticed over the past few years that among the younger professional classes a sort of European nationality, but that doesn't seem widespread.
Here in the States, at least traditionally, anyone could become an American. The new citizen was as much an American as someone whose ancestors came on the Mayflower in 1620 (or some of mine in 1623). Most every immigrant, even 125 years ago, had some trouble at first, but they assimilated because at base that was what American society wanted. Anyway, here's my question. You are "next door" to France. Can you comment on the interplay of immigration, the "multi-culturalism" of Europe, assimilation and the "volk" ideas on the Continent and in Great Britain? What do you think will happen on the Continent and GB and what would the British do if the French problems broke out there?
"Can you comment on the interplay of immigration, the "multi-culturalism" of Europe, assimilation and the "volk" ideas on the Continent and in Great Britain? What do you think will happen on the Continent and GB and what would the British do if the French problems broke out there?"
Boy! Ask a simple question why don't you? I couldn't claim to be a sociologist or expert on these areas, but some rambling thoughts from a simple deacon follow.
IMHO "multiculturalism" is a sham and pipedream born in the fetid imaginations of do-gooding left-leaning liberals and their failed attempts at social engineering.
The situation over here is very different from the states in that, to some extent, all your communities are immigrant stock and the "American idea" is an idea born of immigrants and tailored for immigrants.
In theory, I could become an American tomorrow and with the more-or-less common language could fit right in easy as pie. But you are right that I could not become a Greek. In Europe we have the complicating factors of long histories, strong national identities, and cultures and heritages which have been shaped (nominally at least) by Christianity.
Something which JPII constantly stressed - and I think he was very right on this - is the link between culture and religion (or culture and cult). This is something the secular masters of Europe just cannot understand. There hasn't been a "multi-cultural" society in Europe since the days of ancient Athens and Rome where the nature of the religion was that if a new cult and god came along, it was simply added to the existing pantheon of gods and everybody worshipped all of them.
The idea that you can blend different monotheistic religions such as Christianity and islam into a multicultural or plural society is IMHO absurd. The host country (however nominal in its religion) doesn't want the religion of the incomer and the incomer doesn't want the religion of the host country. So rather than a single multicultural society you get a number of different societies living side by side, often in de facto ghettos, each having their own culture and largely having nothing to do with each other at the social level, but of necessity meeting to some degree in the economic and commercial fields.
Assimilation only takes place to the extent that it is economically necessary to assimilate. Everything else remains separate.
Of course most immigrants tend to be of the lower socio-economic classes who are hoping to do better financially by immigrating. For the great majority this never happens because they continue to behave in the same way that made them poor in their country of origin when they arrive in their new country. The poor get poorer because they do what poor people do to make themselves poor and the rich get richer because they do what rich people do to make themselves rich. Consequently the self-selecting cultural ghettos in Europe tend also to be areas of concentrated poverty resulting in the perception of alienation and exclusion from all the economic success etc that the rest of the population enjoys. These areas thus become ripe for fomenting hatred, resentment and aggressive fundamentalism especially where islam is concerned.
Immigrants of professional status are usually very different. They take a set-back by immigrating, but generally tend to be less likely to live in ghettos, live where they need to for work, and tend to assimilate better with the local population among peers who tend to relate to one another more by educational and occupational background than they do by race or religious background. As a rule therefore, they tend not to be a problem.
Immigrants of the same or similar religion to the host country also tend to assimilate much more effectively. I think particularly of the large numbers of Philipinos and east Europeans who are now coming to the UK. They usually make links with their local churches and communities shortly after arriving and so also find their feet much more quickly.
I think the idea of a young professional European identity only has so much scope. We are still largely nationalistic small countries where the man on the street wants to keep his identity despite what his idiot political masters (freemasons?) might think.
As to what will happen on the continent, I think the Balkan syndrome will become more widespread because we are now dealing with militant islam rather than just racial groupings. They hate and want to destroy the West and everything it stands for (much of which I also acknowledge to be evil). The "clash of civilisations" is inevitable.
As for what will happen in GB: we have already been through the "race riots" thing in the '70's and '80's. They were ugly, but put down effectively because there was less political correctness and civil liberty-type restrictions on the police and security services back then. What would happen now if the slammies started doing what they are doing in France, I don't know. The government would praise the religion of peace and all that crap. "Community leaders" would appeal for calm on all sides and other such cliches. However, while it is OK to denigrate and offend Christians of all types in our country, it is always necessary to "be sensitive to the feelings of the minority communities" so I doubt their lawlessness would be put down effectively.
But there might be a backlash. Extreme right groups have already started desecrating muslim graves and vandalising the occasional mosque, but its fairly small beer compared to the undergound bombings that they inflicted on us in July.
One mental mullah has started calling on muslims to leave the U.K. - I think we should give him free air-time!
If they allow Turkey into the EU, this will all get much worse, much quicker.
"However, while it is OK to denigrate and offend Christians of all types in our country, it is always necessary to "be sensitive to the feelings of the minority communities" so I doubt their lawlessness would be put down effectively.
But there might be a backlash. Extreme right groups have already started desecrating muslim graves and vandalising the occasional mosque, but its fairly small beer compared to the undergound bombings that they inflicted on us in July."
I rather thought that is what you'd say, unfortunately. I'm not sure what would happen here, but my suspicion is that while we might tolerate a few days of rioting in a single city, if the Moselms tried this on any scale...and the government did little or nothing, well, we'd probably "handle" the problem ourselves. In the end, though, I get the feeling this sort of thing won't happen in the States. I sure hope not. It could get messy as we are, shall we say, a heavily armed citizenry.
Got ta get that hit and hold it
Just like Chong, they get the bowl and they reload it.
In America, where is our Enoch Powell?
After all, George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice aren't breaking the fast with Jews on Yom Kippur, supping with Hindus on Diwali, or cavorting with Druids on the Winter Solstice. And they certainly aren't feting official Christendom on Christmas Day — and no, the children's Easter Egg roll doesn't compare.
This was a good point. And yes, her words definitely came across as supplication and the conciliatory words of a good dhimmi. I was very disappointed.
We're not getting oil from Iraq. As for the rest of OPEC, believe me, the princes would be selling to us even if our official policy were to spit on the name of their phony prophet every time it appeared. The name of the game is money with them.
But you're certainly right on the lack of conviction on the part of Western democracies. That's our fundamental problem.
I dodn't know anything about West, but, she is spot on about Islam
"At least y'all had an Enoch Powell - even though y'all didn't heed his nationally salvific message."
LOL! My aged mother still swears by Enoch Powell and his "Rivers of blood" speech. It was over 30 years ago when that (among other things) got him thrown out of the Conservative Party - he wouldn't get anywhere near them now.
They probably wouldn't let him into America either unless he came disguised as an imam.
"We're not getting oil from Iraq."
No, sorry - I must have been thinking of Kofi Anan's kid!
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