Posted on 07/21/2005 11:10:46 PM PDT by Crackingham
A parish priest has refused to give an Italian woman a Christian funeral because she had “lived in sin”. Father Giuseppe Mazzotta, parish priest at Marcellinara, near Catanzaro in Calabria, said that he had denied a Christian funeral to Maria Francesca Tallarico, who died of breast cancer at the age of 45, because she had lived with her partner but never married him. Her partner was separated and had an 11-year-old daughter.
“She lived with her lover, so she was a public sinner,” Father Mazzotta said. “I decided not to celebrate an official Mass for this woman, who was not in communion with the Church.”
Father Mazzotta said that he had performed the liturgy of absolution for the dead. He added that he was close to the dead woman’s family and had offered them “words of comfort”.
Father Antonio Sciortino, the Editor of Famiglia Cristiana, a popular Catholic magazine, accused Father Mazzotta of “excessive zeal”. Mario Paraboschi, a local councillor, said that he was perplexed. Father Mazzotta said that his action carried a message: “Marriage is a sacrament. We cannot simply pretend.”
The priest’s decision has underlined the growing power of conservative Catholicism in Italy. The liberal and secular Left is increasingly alarmed by the return to “Catholic values” in politics and everyday life, which has clear implications for the general election, due next May.
Yesterday Romano Prodi, the leader of the opposition Centre Left, who hopes to oust the ruling Centre-Right coalition of Silvio Berlusconi, came under fire from the Church and the Right for suggesting that he would follow “the French example” and recognise homosexual “civil unions” if he were returned to power.
Signor Prodi said that he would not go so far as Spain and legalise gay marriage, but Il Giornale, the conservative newspaper owned by the Berlusconi family, said that that was the logical next step.
Here is a web page that is of interest:
http://www.michaeljournal.org/stpio.htm
It is a re-print of an article in the Michael Journal in the May-June-July, 2002 issue.
Not only, according to this article, did Padre Pio predict that Karol Wojtyla would become Pope, but also said that, to quote the article:
It was said that in 1947, Padre Pio had also foretold to the young Wojtyla the assassination attempt: “You will see your white cassock stained with blood.”
Finally, the article has the truly remarkable story of the little girl who had no pupils, and had no hope of ever seeing, until cured, through the grace of God, when she went to see Saint Padre Pio at San Giovanni Rotondo: Gemma DiGiorgio.
I have a holy relic of Saint Pio's. A piece of one of his robes. My eldest brother has a special devotion to him and has been encouraging me to read more about him. And now it appears that yet another person is trying to tell me to read more about this amazing man! Thanks. topher!
What book do you recommend I read first?
Maybe Salvation can add to this. My problem is that it is about 10 years ago that I first started getting into Padre Pio, so I don't remember what was best back then.
I found Send Me Your Guardian Angel very inspiring. It is written by a Capuchin who was with Padre Pio for years. I guess that is a good one to start with -- very inspiring stories...
Stories of Padre Pio by Madame Katharina Tangari is another good book and is available from TAN. This one gives a more solid historical background and a variety of stories.
The book on Mary Pyle (Mary's House) by Dorothy Gaudiose is a good book because Padre Pio could not write down anything about his life starting about 1920 until 1968. Mary Pyle, being very well educated, kept a diary/notebook about Padre Pio, which this book is based on.
It's true that funerals can comfort the friends and family of the deceased, but in the Catholic Church, intercessory prayer on the behalf of the soul must always come first in importance.
We believe that God is above and beyond the laws of time and space as we know them in this Universe. Thus prayer offered NOW can benefit a person who was on the verge of death a week or a month or ten years ago. Prayer can also ease the temporal punishments due to sin.
With this in mind, what the priest did was both honest and merciful.
The big difference here is that we believe the Church is the Body of Christ: He is the Head, and we are the members. The idea of choosing between Christ and the Church is, on thus understanding, based on a false dichotomy. Christ established a Church. He wants everyone to join it, because it means joining Him.
The same truth is expressed in Our Lord's parable of the Vine and the Branches. You can hardly say you have a "direct relationship" with Jesus and at the same time refuse (or neglect) to be grafted into a life-giving relationship with the rootstock, the vine trunk, and the other branches.
Actually, most ordinary, "respectable" people are private sinners. We keep most of our sins well covered-up, don't we? As we present our good-enough-Christian faces to the public?
There is an important difference between public and private. A public sinner --- one who is open, defiant,and unrepentant --- is a dangerous public influence and, by example, can draw many more people into sin, especially the young, impulsive, and vulnerable.
On the other hand, people who fight their habitual sins --- fight, fall, and fight again --- repenting, and humbly seeking the grace to start again --- find that their struggles give hope to others, and are pleasing to God.
No priest could rightly say whether this woman or anybody else was in hell. The Catholic Church canonizes saints, but does not "demonize" ANYBODY. We know that nobody on earth can know for certain whether somebody else chose eternal separation from God.
That is: we know hell exists. It's a hot possibility for anyone who rejects God's love and breaks His commandments. But we can't positively name anybody who's there. This is reflected in the paradox of a traditional Catholic prayer:
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins,
Save us from the fires of hell.
Lead all souls to heaven,
Especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
You included an odd clarifier in there: "suspects".
What if a non-Catholic Christian does NOT "suspect" the Catholic church is "the one true church"?
In your opinion, will such a person go to hell?
I appreciate your posts, Mrs. Don-o. They are always so well thought out and gently delivered.
I suppose I'm somewhat sensitive to what Catholics believe regarding who's going to hell since according to some Catholics, who've hinted but have never had the candor to say directly that, I am.
Thanks for the clarification, and the beautiful prayer.
St. John's Gospel says that Jesus, the Logos, is "the true Light who enlightens every man who comes into the world." St. Paul in his letter to Timothy, says that "God wills that all men be saved, and come into an knowledge of the Truth."
In this way we know that God gives ever human being, in some way, the opportunity to choose and embrace the Light, and God WANTS everybody to do so.
So (I'm walking on eggshells here) there must be some way that all people are given a chance by our just and loving God.
We do know that this happens, somehow, through the Church. We are convinced that this is the Catholic Church. Ordinarily, people enter the Catholic Church by baptism; and in fact that Catholic Church holds that all who are baptized --- even in other denominations --- are in some way Catholic.
(I'll admit that when my husband was a Baptist, he got a laugh out of this, when I said he was "certainly, but imperfectly, Catholic.")
(I'm glad he took it nice!)
In another way, there is a mystery here, since some people never heard of the Catholic Church, or perhaps were repelled by the hypocrisy, slackness, meanness or violence or cowardice of Catholic people (Yes, all the vices can be found herein.) Yet some such people are surely seekers of truth.
As Simone Weil once said, "Christ likes us to prefer truth to him because, before being Christ, he is truth. If one turns aside from him to go toward the truth, one will not go far before falling into his arms.
Weil is a wild one, of course, and, strongly attracted to Catholicism, yet she died unbaptized, non-Catholic. Yet it seem plain she was a lover of Christ and the Church.
"Other sheep I have, who are not of this flock...."
Have I made myself suitably obscure?
Always ask for more Light. In this darkened world, in my darkened mind, that's what I do. God bless you.
That's what theologians call "invincible ignorance".
Now, don't get your hackles up. "Ignorant" is not a synonym for "stupid" (although some people use it that way), it means "the state of not knowing (something)", which is exactly what you're talking about.
Such persons can be saved. If they are, they're saved by being incorporated into the Catholic Church in some mystical, non-visible way. The people we're talking about are the people who would join the church if they became convinced that it was God's will that they do so.
That's why Lumen Gentium (Vatican II) is careful to say that persons who know that the Catholic Church is founded by God through Christ, and yet choose to remain outside of her, cannot be saved. Persons who do not have that knowledge are not culpable for failing to act on what they do not know.
This is actually a general principle of Catholic moral theology. It goes back to the distinction between "formal" and "material" sin. "Material sin" is an objective violation of the divine law. "Formal sin" is a deliberate choice to knowingly violate the divine law. Formal sin is what imputes guilt; purely material sin does not, since the "sinner" is not choosing to do anything wrong, but is doing what he (erroneously) believes to be right.
There are some Catholics who adhere to a belief, sometimes called "Feeneyism", that only persons who are formally members of the visible Catholic Church during their lives can be saved.
That is -- as best as I've been able to determine -- a "tolerated opinion," not officially considered heresy. But it's very far from the majority opinion of orthodox Catholic theologians, going back easily to Pope Pius IX (mid 19th century) and before.
In general, I think it's a very bad idea to tell someone they're going to hell just because they profess the wrong religion. Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't. I'm much more concerned with getting myself and my family to heaven than trying to declare God's judgement in regard to others.
Now, about those Protestants who think Catholics aren't Christians ... :-0
Thanks for the best reply on the thread.
No.
Everyone is a sinner. That's for sure. Not everyone is a "public" sinner, however. I've not read all the posts on this thread so someone may have already explained this point. Ignore this if they have.
The word "public", has a specific meaning in this context. It does not simply mean "done in public view". It means unashamed and unrepentant and because of this, causing great scandal. Proud of being a sinner, if you will.
Not saying I agree with the priest, just want to explain what he means by this phrase.
Thank you again. On some level, I think I hear what you're saying.. Hope you don't mind me adding you to my (mental) list of favorite Catholic FReepers.. :o)
Campion's better than I am on doctrine. Now there's where we both can learn!
I THOUGHT CREMATION WAS OK NOW? There have been seveval funerals in our diocese without a casket due to the body being cremated. I was told cremation was "approved" now-
Please let me know-is it approved or not?
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