Posted on 02/17/2005 5:56:34 PM PST by Land of the Irish
Question 37- Did Sr. Lucia Really Deny that the 1984 Consecration was Valid?
Mr. Sungenis,
"In any case, why is Bertone suddenly considering Sr. Lucia an expert witness and interpreter of the consecration considering the fact that on five separate instances between 1984 and 1989 Sr. Lucia is documented as stating that the 1984 consecration DID NOT fulfill Our Lady’s 1929 request to consecrate the nation of Russia?"
I see the claim made many times but no one ever offers any proof of it. Can you give a first-hand source?
R. Sungenis: Here is the excerpt from my paper on Fatima: Concerning Russia, the Second Secret states:
In order to save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If people do what I ask, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war [World War I] is going to end. But if people do not stop offending God, another even worse, will begin in the reign of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that it is the great sign that God gives you that He is going to punish the world by means of war, hunger and persecution of the Church and the Holy Father. To prevent this I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the first Saturdays.
If they attend to My requests, Russia will be converted and the world will have peace. If not, Russia will spread its errors throughout the world, fomenting wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be annihilated.
In the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me: it will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.
In an interview with Sister Lucia, she stated: "Many times the Blessed Virgin told me and my cousins Jacinta and Francisco that Russia is the instrument of chastisement chosen by Heaven to punish the whole world if we do not beforehand obtain the conversion of that poor nation."
NB: The evidence shows that on three separate occasions in the 1980's, Sister Lucia indicated, in no uncertain terms, that the consecration of Russia had not yet been performed.
First, on March 19, 1983, she stated to the Apostolic Nuncio, Archbishop Sante Portalupi: "The consecration of Russia has not been made as Our Lady has determined." At this meeting, she then set forth the requirements to accomplish the consecration of Russia: (1) Russia must be clearly indicated as the object of the consecration; (2) each bishop must make a public and solemn ceremony in his own church simultaneous with the Pope. These requirements are clearly listed in the text of the Second Secret. Second, in an interview which appeared in Sol de Fatima (September 1985), Sister Lucia was asked if the Pope fulfilled the request made by Our Lady at Tuy, Spain, when he consecrated the world on March 25, 1984. Sister Lucia answered: "There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia." The interviewer then asked, "So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?" Sister Lucia answered: "No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act." [This coincides with the previous statement cited from John Paul II that he did not consecrate Russia though he "tried to do everything possible in the concrete circumstances"]. On March 22, 1984, Sister Lucia was celebrating her seventy-seventh birthday at the Carmel of Coimbra. Her long-time friend, Eugenia Pestana, visited her, as was her annual custom. Eugenia asked her: "Lucia, Sunday is the Consecration?" referring to the March 25 date. Having already read the text of the Pope's speech, Sister Lucia answered: "That consecration cannot have a decisive character because Russia does not appear in it as the sole object of consecration." (Fatima, Tragedy and Triumph, pp. 172-173). During this time, Cardinal Gagnon, in an interview with Fr. Caillon, states that the consecration of Russia has not been accomplished. In 1986, Maria do Fetal, cousin to Sister Lucia, publicly quotes Sister Lucia as saying that the consecration of Russia has not been performed. But similar to Fr. Coelho's reversal (previously cited), Maria will also mysteriously change her mind in 1989. In addition, in 1988, Cardinal Gagnon will castigate Fr. Nicholas Gruner for publishing his remarks in the Fatima Crusader, claiming they were not meant for publication.
Third, after interviewing Sister Lucia outside her convent, Enrico Romero publishes the contents on July 20, 1987. He reports that Sister Lucia again stated that the consecration of Russia requested by Our Lady of Fatima had not been accomplished. This is followed on October 25, 1987 with an acknowledgment by Cardinal Mayer, in front of an audience of a dozen Catholic leaders, that the consecration of Russia had not been accomplished. Fourth, prior to July 1989, Cardinal Law of Boston is reported to have visited Sister Lucia to ask her about the consecration of Russia. Sister Lucia remarked: "Has it been done on the narrow road of collegial consecration that Our Lady demanded and has been wanting? No, that has not been done."
In July 1989, the screws begin to tighten. Sister Lucia is given explicit instructions from unidentified Vatican operatives ordering her to say that the consecration of Russia was accomplished in the March 25, 1984 ceremony. [As noted, in that particular consecration the Pope neither singled out Russia for consecration, nor did the world's bishops simultaneously participate in the consecration]. After achieving her silence, Archbishop Bertone then produces a four-page, typewritten statement, purportedly typed and signed by Sister Lucia herself on November 8, 1989, that the consecration of Russia had been accomplished. In the Vatican announcement Bertone states:
On 25 March 1984, in St. Peter's Square, while recalling the fiat uttered by Mary at the Annunciation, the Holy Father, in spiritual union with the bishops of the world, who had been convoked beforehand, entrusted all men and women and all peoples to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He adds that the words of consecration included:
...this human world of ours...we entrust and consecrate to you, for we are full of concern for the earthly and eternal destiny of individuals and peoples. In a special way we entrust and consecrate to you those individuals and nations which particularly need to be thus entrusted and consecrated. Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished. Hence any further discussion or request is without basis. (Archbishop Bertone stated that the words of Sr. Lucia, in her letter of November 8, 1989, were, in Portuguese: "Sim, esta feit a, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Marco de 1984," which translates to: "Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984.")
Many point out, however, that Sister Lucia has never stated, privately or publicly, that she composed the statement, let alone sign it. She has never been known to type a letter, since all her correspondence thus far has been from her own handwriting. Her own blood-sister, Carolina, indicates that Sister Lucia does not even know how to type. And certainly, an admission by Sister Lucia that the March 25, 1984 consecration satisfied Our Lady's request would completely contradict every statement she has made on the requirements for the consecration over the previous sixty years, including her five denials of 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, and 1989, respectively.
“According to Unity, what the nuns or Lucia said about the movie is unknown and may never be known because statements by Lucia or for that matter any Carmelite nun throughout the world are always sent through the bishop or the Holy Father first. Because of her power of influence, Lucia must be very careful what she says publicly since she is one of the possessors of the so-called ‘Third Secret of Fatima.’”
Wouldn't that also mean that her "denials" had to go through the Holy Father first?
God bless, Donato
R. Sungenis: No, because her denials were made prior to the restrictions the Holy See placed on her in 1989.
Ping
But.......you are not singing the company song!
After all, due to the consecration of Russia, we have peace in the word! Russia has been converted........oh.....just ignore all the drunkenness, porn, protitution, & abortions.
Just remember to sing the company song in your local worship space, join hands with the worship facilitators, and become Christ in the breaking of the bread!
.....and take your Ridilin.
Get a life.
Get a soul, and try to save it.
Who's soul should I get?
Who's life should I get?
Take a hike, troll. I'm done with you.
You don't know?
Big Sungenis bumpus ad summum
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