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I'm no Hank Haneggraff fan, so don't take this as an endorsement of his book. But I grew up a Tom Stipe fan, having in my youth attended a Vineyard "church". Considering that Tom Stipe was one of the central figures of the Vineyard Christian Fellowship movement of the 1980s and 1990s, I find his article both authoritative, and damning, witness of that denomination and the prophetic movement that swept through it. It's a long article, but I would encourage you to click on the link and read it in it's entirety.

Cutting to the chase, this section (found much lower in his Foward), well characterizes the spiritual and scriptural state of the Vineyard movement at that time, as it was the same thing I saw occur in my local congregation:

After a steady diet of the prophetic, some people were rapidly becoming biblically illiterate, choosing a 'dial-a-prophet" style of Christian living rather than studying God's Word. Many were left to continually live from one prophetic 'fix" to the next, their hope always in danger of failing because God's voice was so specific in pronouncement, yet so elusive in fulfilment. Possessing a prophet's phone number was like having a store- house of treasured guidance. Little clutched notebooks replaced Bibles as the preferred reading material during church services. Some began to fake the shaking and eye fluttering symptoms they had been told were signs of the Holy Spirit coming upon them. They hoped the ministry team would recognise the signs of God and rush to their sides, lifting their hands and praying, 'More, Lord!" Shaking, laughing, weeping, and eye twitching always ensured that the parishioner would attract the immediate attention of the leaders and their peers. One conference speaker, addressing 8,000 people, discouraged the use of reference books, commentaries, and language tools for sermon preparation. Rather, the pastors were exhorted to determine their Sunday messages through listening for prophecies during long walks with the Lord. Something was dangerously wrong in the movement. One of my own church board members refused to make any decision until his hands got "hot," indicating that his choice was wise. Disturbing symptoms were definitely beginning to show up in my own fellowship...

...All of this seemed very comforting at the time, but I always wondered how far the magic "Satan Shield" extended- 100 yards of perimeter? Two feet? Was there a time limit, say midnight, for example, before Satan's minions could again return to their normal, attacks? How long did the bread and fish "kryptonite' ward off psychic duplication of God's "voice"? Some of us were suckers for this kind of manipulation. My feelings of guilt were conjured up by suggestions that I had exerted too much human leadership and control in the church. All of my peers were confessing their sin of control and letting go, so I followed suit. Despite the fact that Scripture nowhere advocates this misinterpretation of Matthew chapter seven, and in fact commands order in the church (I Cor. 14:17-19), chaos reigned in my church because I had come to believe I needed to forfeit my duty to maintain order. I had almost lost my commitment to presenting a clear gospel message to visiting nonbelievers and instead allowed subjectivity to reign over reasoning from the Scriptures. I needed to repent and become a true shepherd again. As my wife and I prepared to attend what would be our last Vineyard board of directors meeting, we rehearsed what we would say: how we needed to eliminate the swirl of subjectivity that had entered our church; how we needed to get back to the basics of Christian evangelism and discipleship; how we needed to restore Bible study to our members' daily lives. We didn't want to cause trouble. We had formed close friendships with these people, loved them, and considered them an important part of our lives. But we could no longer remain silent concerning the truth.

During the series of meetings, various leadership concerns were raised about the effect "prophetic" influences were having on the core of our theology. Some of the leaders who dared to reveal their misgivings were quickly warned that the "prophet," the "one whose words never fall to the ground,' had supernaturally heard our conversations and would report them to the national leader for disciplinary action. Since 'Big Brother" was watching us, we were forbidden to discuss -these issues with other board members. Other directors began to share "words" that God had spoken to them for the direction of our movement. One director claimed God had told him that the pure church was the cell church, and that we should abandon public Bible teaching and evangelism altogether for small group meetings. Some heralded the position that real evangelism takes place through "signs and wonders,' when people are attracted to the Kingdom of God through 'demonstrations" of power. Some scorned the idea of evangelistic crusades. Some supported the ministry of the prophets. Others presented evidence regarding the trickery and manipulation often used by the prophets in their meetings...

...I went back to teaching the Bible in the most basic fashion I could, verse by verse. When I first announced that we were going to go through the Gospel 'of John for the better part of the year, the response of some was, 'Why the Book of John? I read that when I was a baby Christian.' Others were horrified that I would discourage shaking and twitching "in the Spirit." What had been a church of 4,400 shrank as people left to join the 'holy laughter" movement. My hate mail grew to enormous proportions. Even the movement's leader publicly denounced me, predicting that God would kill me for my 'sin." God was true to His word in the midst of the storm that our congregation endured during what we later called 'the year of slander.' Within a few months, several hundred people came to a saving knowledge of Christ. Baptisms increased simply because there were new converts to baptise. People's lives were radically changing, and the church was becoming healthy again. Attendance increased almost overnight. Within a year, we added a third service to our Sunday schedule. Currently our congregation is moving past 6,000, and our struggles are with ordinary, normal issues of Christian life. All of this because of the basics. It's really that simple (see Heb. 4:12-13; 2 Kings 22:8-13; Jer. 15:16).


1 posted on 12/03/2004 6:25:11 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: All
In an attempt to be fair-minded, I direct the reader to the following website: Vineyard Apologetics. It provides links to, among other things, a Reply to Hank Hanegraaff's Attack on the Association of Vineyard Churches in his book "Counterfeit Revival", although the article never addresses Stipe's Forward to the book.

It also says this about Vineyard founder John Wimber and his relationship to the "Kansas City Prophets"...

It should be noted that John Wimber's view of the "Kansas City Prophets" changed over time and he was ultimately to apologise for bringing them into the Vineyard. See the Christianity Today interview of 14 July 1997. Much more information about the "Kansas City Prophets" can be found in Bill Jackson's history of the Vineyard, The Quest for the Radical Middle.

2 posted on 12/03/2004 6:33:10 AM PST by Alex Murphy (Psalm 73)
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To: Alex Murphy

It's sad to see people get swept up into such dangerous fads. We have a few Vineyard churches in my area, and I've heard of similar goofiness going on in some of them.


3 posted on 12/03/2004 6:34:28 AM PST by opus86 ("I think those are things that people who think about those things are thinking about...")
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To: jboot; jude24; AZhardliner; A.J.Armitage; 4Godsoloved..Hegave; Frumanchu; oldcodger; irishtenor; ...

Ping to the usual suspects.....


4 posted on 12/03/2004 6:35:24 AM PST by Alex Murphy (Psalm 73)
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To: All
FWIW, the thread's title is taken from an expression used by Tom Stipe, roughly 1/3 of the way into the article:
Dreams and their interpretation soon moved to centre stage as prophecy conferences taught devotees to keep a pencil and notebook on their nightstands to write down each dream as it occurred. These were later interpreted for God's message. People lived on the edges of their seats, waiting for the grandiose promises of prophecies to come true. Most waited in vain. Not long after 'prophecy du jour' became the primary source of direction, a trail of devastated believers began to line up outside our pastoral counselling offices. Young people promised teen success and stardom through prophecy were left picking up the pieces of their shattered hopes because God had apparently gone back on His promises. Leaders were deluged by angry church members who had received prophecies about the great ministries they would have but had been frustrated by local church leaders who failed to recognise and "facilitate" their "new anointing.'

7 posted on 12/03/2004 7:39:38 AM PST by Alex Murphy (Psalm 73)
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To: Alex Murphy
Some of the churches out here were affected by the "Toronto Blessing". I don't have first hand information but a friend of mine eventually stopped going to her church because she felt that the bible had been relegated to a prop.

I think we always have look for the "fruit" when considering whether a particular course in beneficial. It's not how many fannies fit in the pews, it's how many sinners find safety in God. Are people making real life changes? Are families stronger? Are people exercising justice and compassion? Are people sincerely trying to avoid temptation? Are people considering God in their daily decisions? If so, then fine.

The manifestations my friend saw and the increasing reliance on personal messages from God did not seem to bear good fruit for the congregation. The people fought and argued, some individuals and groups were marginalized or even denounced. The bible was no longer a reliable rule. People left.

It's difficult for me to see why it took the leadership so long to perform some pruning of this movement. I suppose it's easy to be critical when you're outside looking in.
18 posted on 12/03/2004 9:54:44 AM PST by Gingersnap
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