Interview with His Eminence Cardinal Castrillion Hoyos

The Tridentine IS a "rite," as are the Mozarabic, Sarum, and Ambrosian [rites.] That's merely a descriptor which is applied to the rubrics, prayers, and readings in toto.

The Tridentine IS a "rite," as are the Mozarabic, Sarum, and Ambrosian [rites.] That's merely a descriptor which is applied to the rubrics, prayers, and readings in toto.

The word can be used as a descriptor, you're correct. But the word can also be used in a different, stricter sense. It often is so used. I believe His Eminence intended using the term as a descriptor.

In 2001.

http://www.sspx.org/articles_index.htm#negotiations

"they say their Latin Novus Ordo, at least in terms of externals, is almost identical to the Tridentine High mass, would such a mass be acceptable to many who want tradition, but can not get an indult?"

Yes - at the oratory the N.O. Latin Mass is offered exceedingly beautifully and many traditionalists would have less qualms about attending the new rite if it was offered in this way everywhere.

However, one of the main reasons that the new rite liturgy is conducted in this way is that 6 out of the 8 priests at the oratory also celebrate the Tridentine Rite! The fact that they love the old Mass rubs off on the way they do the new.

Tridentine Low Mass is offered at 10.00 am in the "Little Oratory", and Sung Latin N.O. Mass is offered at 11.00 am in the main Church. (Just in case you ever do make a trip to London).

At least when the N.O. Mass is said in Latin we get to participate in the same Mass and Prayers that in theory the rest of the Roman Church is participating in. English speakers have been deprived of this right for the last 30 years!

"If a Novus Ordo is sung in Latin, using the Confetior and Canon I, I really do not see how it can be considerd "inferior" to the Tridentine mass."

While the externals are not necessarily inferior, the lack of precision, ambiguity, and shady theology of some of the prayers are still a problem with the N.O. Mass even when said in Latin.

My interest in the restoration of the Tridentine Rite is not so much to do with the Latin as it is with the orthodoxy of our worship. I would be quite content with an accurate English translation of the old Mass, if suitably dignified language were to be used.

IMHO orthodoxy is a much bigger issue than which language we celebrate the Mass in - though I am cognizant of the arguments for the use of Latin being a defense of orthodoxy.

"But on the whole, you are correct; the Latin rendition of the NO is very much like the 1962 Rite."

This is nonsense. There is a radical difference between the two Masses. Merely because the N.O. is rendered in Latin does not make it any less deficient than the version in the vernacular. It has not simply altered the Offertory--it has junked it altogether--just as Martin Luther had done--and this is a fact whether in Latin or in any other language. It has exchanged the sacrificial structure for a structure predicated on a memorial meal--exactly as Protestant liturgies do, in open contradiction to the mandates of Trent. Neither does it express adequately the propitiatory purpose of the Mass as mandated by Trent, even as it subverts the dogma of Transubstantiation--exactly as the vernacular does. Worst of all, its notion of sacrifice is Protestant, not Catholic, since it is a "sacrifice" of thanksgiving and praise, not that of an actual immolation--just as in a Lutheran worship service. In fact, its only advance on the vernacular version is its less pedestrian language--but this is only a minor advantage. It remains dangerous to the Catholic faith.

You wont find me defending how the NO came to be or how it is celebrated in most parishes, but the rites in the west had different offertories.

Here is the one found in t he Dominican rite, it is quite short>>>>>>>

What shall I render to the Lord for all that he hath rendered to me?

I will take the chalice of salvation and will call upon the name of the Lord.

Receive, O holy Trinity, this offering, which I present to thee in memory of the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ: and grant that it may ascend to thee worthily in thy sight, and may bring about my eternal salvation and that of all the faithful.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here is the web site

http://members.aol.com/liturgialatina/dominican/mass_ordinary.htm

Even this shorter form recalls the Passion of Christ and links this to the "chalice of salvation." That is a far cry from the Novus Ordo which makes no mention of the sacrifice to come nor to the victimhood of Christ in any way. Everything is done to emphasize the meal aspect--in the Protestant manner.