BRUCE ALMIGHTY: Atheism's Critique of Arminianism

[drstevej]

Bruce Nolan (Carrey), a television reporter in Buffalo, N.Y.,is discontented with almost everything in life despite his popularity and the love of his girlfriend, Grace (Aniston) . At the end of the worst day of his life, Bruce angrily ridicules and rages against God and God responds. God appears in human form (Freeman) and, endowing Bruce with divine powers, challenges Bruce to take on the big job to see if he can do it any better.

 

Bruce Nolan:       How do you make someone love you without changing free will?
God:                     Welcome to my world.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Strictly speaking, John Calvin isn't dead either... ~~ That's true, OP. You are even more wise than I had thought.

Well -- just because I'm uncomfortable with the idea of praying to John Calvin (or "asking John Calvin in heaven to pray for me") doesn't mean I disagree with the Orthodox doctrine of the living, present consciousness of (physically) "departed" Saints.

Remind me to ruminate on the Doctrine of Deification (Western "Glorification", but I have some liking for the Greek term) sometime.

[P-Marlowe]

Some scriptures are so clear that they need no interpretation or construction.

John 11:35 Jesus wept.

That's the only one I can think of that falls into that category.

Are there others?

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Would the repentance of Tyre and Sidon have affected Corozain and Bethsaida in any way?

[Jean Chauvin]

"Some scriptures are so clear that they need no interpretation or construction. I will not fall into a trap set by those who attempt to claim that words mean something different when the words are so unambiguous."

All truth comes from the Holy Spirit (Gen 40:8, John 16:13, 1 Cor 1:21, 1 Cor 2:9-13, 1 Cor 12:3, 1 Thess 1:4, 1 Thess 2:13). No matter how simple the passage, the person without the Holy Spirit can twist it. I woudn't expect legal standards of the U.S. of A. to have any bearing on that. So, I don't know what the gentle Marlowe's opinion would have to do with that.

Furthermore, nobody is attempting to set a "trap".

It is curious, though, why you steadfastly refuse to give an explanation in your own words of something you claim to be so "simple"!?!

"so you admit that you may, attimes, erroneously interpret the Bible; or do you exempt yourself from that possibility?"

Sure.

That you may have a problem with very clear and unambiguous passages of the Bible is your problem; not mine."

I didn't say I could not understand the passage in question. If it is possible that I might have a problem with a "clear and unambigous passge", then it also possible that you have the same problem. I(we) just want to make sure that you don't.

Jean

[Jean Chauvin]

"so you admit that you may, attimes, erroneously interpret the Bible; or do you exempt yourself from that possibility? That you may have a problem with very clear and unambiguous passages of the Bible is your problem; not mine."

Why would you demand of me something you have steadfastly refused to do yourself?

I have no problems with Philip Johnson's definition. However, I need to note, once again, that Philip Johnson's definition of "hyper-Calvinism" does not include the belief that God has predetermined/foreordained all things -including all sin.

So far, that is all the quotes from Edwin Palmer you have cited profess to.

Furthermore, you are the one making the accusations that Edwin Palmer is a "hyper-Calvinist". It is on you to document proof -not me.

If the "proof" in your RICO case is anything like the "proof" you have attempted to present to show Edwin Palmer is a "hyper-Calvinist", then I think that you are in deep doo-doo.

Jean

[Jean Chauvin]

"All one needs to do is look at the plain words of 1 Tim. 2:3,4. Spurgeon and I have no trouble understanding that it means that God desires that all men be saved, but the swarm, in order to maintain their collective theology, must insist that it has a different meaning."

You need to note in light of your claim that Spurgeon (and you) have no trouble understanding the meaning of 1 Timothy 2:3,4, that Spurgeon has to explain away the meaning of "desire". Go back and read the article for yourself.

Jean

[jude24]

You're the one who has accused others of being a hypercalvinist. The onus of proof is upon you.

Accordingly, the question to ask is this: do you have an objective definition of what a hypercalvinist might be?

Put more bluntly: am I a hypercalvinist, and why or why not?

[Hermann the Cherusker]

I do not believe that the Orthodox reject transubstantiation. We dislike the word "transubstantiation" because of its connotations of Aristotlean philosophy and medieval scholasticism, but very few people today – even Catholics – use the word in the technically Aristotlean sense. Most people mean by transubstantiation simply the doctrine that the substance of bread and wine is changed into the substance of Body and Blood in the Eucharist, which is Orthodox. The Eastern Patriarchs in their Encyclical write that "the bread is changed, transubstantiated, converted, transformed, into the actual true Body of the Lord". They use four words here, including "transubstantiated", to show that they are equivalent in meaning.

"Changed", "converted", and "transformed" are the common terms of the Fathers.

I'm still mystified by the current unexplained Orthodox dislike of transubstantiation. Its just a big Latin word which means "change of substance", and the intention in using it is to point out the bread and wine still look and taste like bread and wine, but they are now really the body and blood of Christ.

I'm curious for further explanation of the perceived problem with the term.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

The whole link that comes from is well worth the read. Thanks!

http://www.romanitas.ru/eng/DIALOGUE%20BETWEEN%20AN%20ORTHODOX%20AND%20AN%20ECUMENIST.htm

Glory to God! “What is so good or so joyous as for brethren to dwell together in unity!”

[Jean Chauvin]

"John 11:35 Jesus wept."

A simplistic understanding that this passage only taught that Jesus cried would miss the greater significance of the truths this teaches us in connection with Christ's true human nature, the Incarnation and the Trinity.

Understanding of those truths in this passage are given by the Holy Spirit, not by simple mental awareness.

Jean

[Alex Murphy]

As an attorney, I suspect P-Marlowe will confirm this logical/legal principle.

Assuming, of course, that you've kept him on retainer for such an occasion, and that you can afford his reasonable rates.

[Jean Chauvin]

While ctd has steadfastly refused to give us a definition of "hyper-Calvinist" in his own words, he has consistently deferred the definitions given in Philip Johnson's "Primer on Hyper-Calvinism".

The trouble is, that ctd fails to comprehend just what Johnson is saying (he once declared that Johnson, in that article, concluded that the CRC is hyper-Calvinistic).

Furthermore, without explicitly giving a definition as such, ctd has insisted that a hyper-Calvinist is one who believes that God has foreordained/predetermined all things -including all sin. If that is the definition of a "hyper-Calvinist", then John Calvin was also a "hyper-Calvinist" and every other Calvinist who subscribes to the...

• Belgic Confession of 1561
  
• Heidelberg Catechism of 1563
  
• Westminster Confession of 1647
  
• Westminster Longer Catechism of 1648
  
• Westminster Shorter Catechism of 1648
  
• Waldensian Confession of 1655
  
• Baptist Confession of 1677

...are all "hyper-Calvinists" as all those cherished documents profess the belief that God foreordains/predetermines all things -including all sin.

The belief that a "hyper-Calvinist" is one who believes that God has predetermined/foreordained all things -including all sin- is, as I have oft said, Basic Calvinism 101. For this reason, Philip Johnson does not include this belief as determining whether one is a "hyper-Calvinist", for I have no doubt that Philip Johnson also believes that God has foreordained/predetermined all things -including all sin.

In other words, in hopes of not being publically humiliated, ctd is pulling it all out of his butt as he goes.

You were correct some time ago when you made the observation that the definition of "hyper-Calvinism" is what anyone wants to make it in order to show an opponent as being too "extreme".

Jean

[drstevej]

How can we expect a guy with only a 170 IQ to formulate a definition IN HIS OWN WORDS.


***Some scriptures are so clear that they need no interpretation or construction. I will not fall into a trap set by those who attempt to claim that words mean something different when the words are so unambiguous.***

BWAHAHAHA. Try that one on the RICO judges.

BTD, after the tush kicking from Jean, take it easy dancing with the lesbians.

[Alex Murphy]

In other words, in hopes of not being publically humiliated, ctd is pulling it all out of his butt as he goes.

Ugh. The least he could do is clean it first....

[CCWoody]

Careful, next thing you know you'll be sprinkling babies! Tis a slippery slope on which you are treading. ;-) ~ Gamecock

As one whose only Baptism (which involved water) was as an infant in an Episcopal church, it probably wouldn't be the most horrible thing in my life.

Woody.

[MarMema]

the Church rejects a physical change but accepts a mystical one with a real presence.

I like this much, much better. :-)

[FormerLib]

I'm still mystified by the current unexplained Orthodox dislike of transubstantiation.

I believe we'll find that the Orthodox dislike the way the word has previously been defined. Despite who some may think, we aren't contrary just for the sake of being contrary. There's something represented by the term that the Orthodox see as erroneous.

[Jean Chauvin]

That's how I could tell where his load of crap comes from -it smells!

Jean

[CCWoody]

RnMOM! Look what Woody's doing. He's going Catholic on us. ~ DR. E

Oh, not to worry, I was musing to a few friends yesterday about asking a certain Koran kissin' someone what it was like to symbolically kiss a certain someone else's posterior. I might be getting closer to Presbyterianism, but I'm still a vast gulf away from Catholicism.

Your friendly neighborhood Catholic Calvinist
Woody.

[Gamecock]

And yet we know that ctd wanted to strangle a Calvinist preacher!

Isn't that an example of a hyperArminian?