Joint Catholic/Orthodox Statement Regarding the Nicene Creed

EWTN ^ | 10/31/04

[Aquinasfan]

I just heard on EWTN newsbriefs that some Vatican body has announced that a the Catholic Church has reached some form of agreement with the Orthodox Churches regarding the Nicene Creed, specifically the filioque.

I can't remember exactly what the agreement was, but it sounded significant. If anyone finds anything on line, please post it.

[Aquinasfan]

Good news!

[Aquinasfan]

FYI

[dangus]

So is the fili oque or not?

[sitetest]

Dear Aquinasfan,

Are you talking about this?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1011740/posts


sitetest

[Aquinasfan]

Are you talking about this?

That could be it. The date seems right. But I thought I heard that this was coming from a Vatican Congregation. We'll see.

[bobjam]

When Cardinal Ratzinger released Dominus Deus a few years back (the one that basicly said Christianity is right and all other religions are seriously deficient), he began by affirming the Faith handed down through the Apostles. He did this by repeating the Nicene Creed- without the Filioque Clause. I don't know if anyone else caught that.

[NYer]

Found this:

Catholic-Orthodox talks reach partial accord on ancient creedal dispute

WASHINGTON (AP) - The official dialogue between Roman Catholic and Orthodox leaders in North America announced partial agreement on a doctrinal issue that has divided the two Christian branches for nearly 1,000 years.

The groups issued a joint statement Tuesday about the wording of the Nicene Creed, which is recited in all Orthodox and Catholic churches.

The Orthodox insist on the original Greek text from the Council of Constantinople (A.D. 381), which speaks of "the Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father." In 1014, the papacy added "and the Son" ("filioque" in Latin) after that phrase, despite opposition from Eastern churches.

The creedal change and the exercise of papal power without church-wide agreement were major issues in the "Great Schism" between Catholicism and Orthodoxy that was formalized in 1054.

The new statement, the 22nd since the talks began in 1965, notes that the Vatican has affirmed the "normative and irrevocable dogmatic value" of the wording from 381. The paper thus recommends that Catholicism use the original text in worship, and cancel an anathema against Orthodox usage from a Catholic council in 1274.

However, such actions require approval by the Vatican, which sponsors separate Orthodox-Catholic discussions at the world level.

The North American negotiators say the exact relationship of the three persons within the divine Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) "awaits full and final ecumenical resolution."

The talks are chaired by Orthodox Metropolitan Maximos of Pittsburgh and Catholic Archbishop Daniel Pilarczyk of Cincinnati.

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http://www.usccb.org/seia/index.htm

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[maestro]

The Orthodox Statement Regarding the Nicene Creed....?

It is ALL about The Official Greek ORTHODOX Bible TEXTS....N.T.,....and holding to 1st John 5:7 as in the KJV.

Long live the Offical Greek Orthodox Text!

Why?.....be-clause!

':-)

'Luther'......Romans 5:1,........Romans 10:17.....etc.

The Greek Orthodox Church HAS (possesses) The Holy Scripture!

:-)

Shalom......in God's promises!

[editor-surveyor]

Creeds are creations of men, not God. There is not a single creed recorded in God's word.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the heads up!

[Romulus]

There is not a single creed recorded in God's word.

So what?

[editor-surveyor]

"So what?"

So it's much ado about nothing, from a purely spiritual standpoint. Creeds are ecclesiastical politics.

[D-fendr]

Creed:

1. A formal statement of religious belief; a confession of faith.

Don't have one?

[editor-surveyor]

"Don't have one?"

Not one that somebody else wrote out of their own desire to shape the Gospel in conformance to their personal will.

Paul said that we should be prepared to offer a reason, but he didn't say that we should be prepared to recite a reason that was prepared by others.

[MarMema]

Didn't want to make a whole post of this but thought you would like to see it.

His Beatitude, Metropolitan Herman, received two monastic priests and three novices from the former Eastern Rite Catholic Monastery of the Holy Cross here into the Orthodox Faith during a visit October 27 and 28, 2003.

The pics are stunning. Do go and see them here and less stunning ones here.

Also it appears a school came along? What do you think?

[MarMema]

I wish someone ( like you) could tell me who the man is standing in back on the left in glasses here is.

He sang so beautifully when he was out here with the entourage a few years ago.

[FormerLib]

I saw this on the OCA web page today. Very interesting. Of course, I am now the godparent of a little boy born to two former Byzantine Catholics who joined the Orthodox Church.

[MarMema]

Many years!!!

[Salvation]

Ping!

[Salvation]

Don't you mean

Profession of faith

[MarMema]

The paper thus recommends that Catholicism use the original text in worship

Good to see your side coming around. :-)

[narses]

Now we learn a 'new' creed? Or is it the old one was BAD?

[katnip]

The pictures are stunning. The colors, especially the blue on the ceiling and walls is beautiful. The outdoor altar area is something I have never seen before.

The school looks impressive, very small classes with just 300 students and it looks like it goes up thru high school.

A big step for this parish, monestary and school. Many years to them!

[newberger]

Now we learn a 'new' creed? Or is it the old one was BAD?

The Orthodox version (without the filioque) IS the old one.

[D-fendr]

Thanks for your reply.

So it is originality and uniqueness that counts in one's statement of religious beliefs and faith; it's important that it not be one prepared by others?

According to Paul, of course...

[D-fendr]

Don't you mean Profession of faith

I was copying and pasting from dictionary.com, but I think either word would be correct.

[Romulus]

Paul said that we should be prepared to offer a reason, but he didn't say that we should be prepared to recite a reason that was prepared by others.

Which you just did anyway.

[MarMema]

very similar to the cathedral we visited and also to the inside of Saint Basil's in Moscow. I want to paint our living room kind of like this. Put icons all over the walls. It would be like a permanent Orthodox sanctuary.

Also watched this older movie called The Sight where a hotel is painted sort of like this. I am definitely into this idea for decor.

[Destro]

It was those Apostolic Fathers that compiled the New Testament that the Protestants claim always existed in its present form. In fact the Creed is older than the New Testament.

The Church formulated the Nicene Creed before it selected certain apostolic writings, called them the New Testament, and declared them to be Holy Scripture. Another way of looking at it is that God chose the people who were bound by the Nicene Creed to affirm the contents of the New Testament, thereby endorsing the theology of the creed. The Nicene Creed is therefore a reliable test of our interpretation of the New Testament. If we are at variance with the Nicene Creed, we are in error. So whoever denies the Trinity must also deny the New Testament, and whoever upholds the New Testament as Holy Scripture must also affirm the Trinity.

In the beginning, the Church did not have a formal creed, nor did it have a formal list of the books in the New Testament. Then it formulated the Nicene Creed to express its doctrines and to serve as a test of orthodox teaching. So for a while there was a Church with the Nicene Creed but, even though it used the books of the New Testament as Holy Scripture, it had no official statement saying that they were. After the Church was bound by the Nicene Creed, it made a formal list of the books in the New Testament. Therefore, whoever attempts to reconstruct the ancient Church with an official list of New Testament books but without the Nicene Creed is reconstructing an imaginary church that never existed. This doesn’t mean their church is invalid, it just means that it isn’t a historic reconstruction, because in any part of Church history in which there was an official list of New Testament books, the Nicene Creed was the official expression of faith and the final test of orthodoxy.

[bobjam]

I agree that the Filioque Clause does not belong in the Nicene Creed. The Creed defines God as "God the Father" and that the Son is begotten of the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. In that context, the Holy Spirit cannot proceed from the Son for the same reason the Son is not begotten of the Holy Spirit. St. Augustine and Western theologians defined God as "God the Trinity". Affirming the unity of the Trinity is of utmost importance. This is why they added the Filioque Clause. Because Christ said that He will send the Spirit, which comes from the Father, a case (although weak one) can be made for the Filioque. Ultimately it comes down to authority. Can a local council (Toledo)_alter the findings of the Ecumenical Councils of Nicea and Constantinople? Of course not.

[Aquinasfan]

Good point.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the heads up!

[maestro]

..........Ultimately it comes down to authority.........

Amen,.......Romans 10:17

Maranatha!!

(Romans 10:17)

bump!

[Salvation]

Bumping this for some folks!