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Problems with Armor Found On Stryker Combat Vehicle
Seattle Times ^ | 9/5/03 | Ray Rivera

Posted on 09/05/2003 6:05:45 PM PDT by centurion316

Seattle Times September 5, 2003

Problems With Armor Found On Stryker Combat Vehicle

By Ray Rivera and Hal Bernton, Seattle Times staff reporters

Weeks before the Army's Stryker vehicle is scheduled to make its combat debut in Iraq, the Army has discovered manufacturing problems in some of its armor plating that could make it vulnerable to heavy machine-gun fire, according to Army officials familiar with the program.

The extent of the problem is still unknown, but it's serious enough that Army officials have launched a crash program to test the plates at their Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland. They are hopeful it won't delay deployment of troops from Fort Lewis, said two Army officials at the Pentagon, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Small manufacturing deviations are not uncommon, but "because this is armor plating and a survivability issue, it's much more serious," one of the officials said. "This one got farther down the road than we would normally like."

The 19-ton wheeled troop carriers are the cornerstone of the Stryker combat team, the first step in the Army's ambitious, billion-dollar transformation initiative to produce a more nimble, lethal fighting force.

The first unit, the 3rd Brigade of the 2nd Infantry Division, which has about 300 Stryker vehicles, is in its final training exercises at Fort Lewis before its scheduled October deployment.

Army officials said the unit would not be deployed until all of the faulty plates could be identified and replaced or fortified with 3-mm armor backing.

"We're very careful when it comes to the survivability of armored vehicles," said one of the Army officials.

The Stryker vehicles rely on 132 separate ceramic plates designed to protect against rounds up to 14.5 mm, slightly bigger than a .50-caliber bullet.

But Army procurement officials recently found that the military subcontractor hired to provide the armor deviated widely from specifications, providing 39 manufacturing variations of the plates, the sources said. The Army had approved only six variations.

Testers at Aberdeen found that at least one variation of the armor could not stop a 14.5-mm round, the Army officials said. The armor's supplier, German military contractor IBD, could not be reached for comment yesterday.

The Army has tested at least seven additional variations in live fire trials, all of which held, the sources said.

General Dynamics, the Army's lead contractor for the vehicle, has delivered more than 500 Stryker vehicles, equipped with more than 66,000 plates. General Dynamics has a $4 billion contract to produce 2,100 vehicles over the next six years.

Army officials said finding and replacing faulty armor plates won't be a problem because each has a serial number and is logged in a database.

The Army will not begin replacing armor on the 3rd Brigade's 300 vehicles until at least Sept. 14, when the unit completes training, the officials said.

The Stryker combat teams, which have about 3,600 soldiers, were conceived in 1999 by former Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki with the idea of closing the gap between the Army's slow-moving heavy tank units and its light infantry forces, which are quick to deploy but have limited firepower.

The vehicles come in two variants: a mobile gun system, which is still under development, and an armored trooper carrier, which can quickly ferry up to 11 soldiers into combat zones. The troop carriers, in turn, come in eight variations, including mortar carriers, command and control vehicles, reconnaissance and medivac vehicles.

Six brigades are under development, the first two at Fort Lewis.

A source of concern has been the vehicle's vulnerability to rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), which have been widely used by Iraqi guerrilla forces.

The Army is planning to equip the vehicles with slat-armor, creating a sort of umbrella designed to detonate incoming grenades before they make direct contact with the vehicle.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: armor; army; stryker; transformation
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I know that this will add fuel to the fires of the naysayers, but might as well get it out there - not sure that this is anything more significant than any other developmental hiccup, but we will see. Perhaps this is the big new that SLB was talking about
1 posted on 09/05/2003 6:05:45 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: archy; SLB
Read to the troops at the next formation.
2 posted on 09/05/2003 6:06:58 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: centurion316; archy; Squantos
For better or worse, this wheelie is about to get a real field test.

Best of luck to the guys inside.

3 posted on 09/05/2003 6:10:06 PM PDT by LibKill (Will club baby seals for the heck of it.)
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To: centurion316
I look at the source of this info - Seattle Times - and am doubtful.
4 posted on 09/05/2003 6:10:39 PM PDT by caisson71
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To: centurion316
But Army procurement officials recently found that the military subcontractor hired to provide the armor deviated widely from specifications, providing 39 manufacturing variations of the plates, the sources said. The Army had approved only six variations.

Testers at Aberdeen found that at least one variation of the armor could not stop a 14.5-mm round, the Army officials said. The armor's supplier, German military contractor IBD, could not be reached for comment yesterday.

What the hell are we doing being supplied by Germans?

5 posted on 09/05/2003 6:12:17 PM PDT by D. Brian Carter
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To: centurion316
If it can stop 50cal then that is certainly an improvement over current vehicles
6 posted on 09/05/2003 6:13:29 PM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: caisson71
I would like to know where they got the story from.
7 posted on 09/05/2003 6:14:25 PM PDT by grapeape (Hope is not a method. - Gen. Hugh Shelton)
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To: grapeape
click on the link
8 posted on 09/05/2003 6:19:06 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: D. Brian Carter
The much vaunted and praised M1A1 Abrams MBT has as its main gun a 120mm smooth bore made by: (drumroll, please)

Rienmetal GmBh of Germany

Its the same gun found on the Bundesweher's MBT.
If I'm not mistaken, the Brits use it to.
9 posted on 09/05/2003 6:24:53 PM PDT by cavtrooper21 (The only thing criminals will get from me is a .45 bullet or cold steel... Their choice.)
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To: cavtrooper21
Just curious what is the advantage of smooth bore? Higher Muzzel Velocity or Range or something else?
10 posted on 09/05/2003 6:28:55 PM PDT by agincourt1415 (USAFE VET)
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To: agincourt1415
I'm not sure.
Archy would know, he's a treadhead.
11 posted on 09/05/2003 6:39:38 PM PDT by cavtrooper21 (The only thing criminals will get from me is a .45 bullet or cold steel... Their choice.)
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To: cavtrooper21
Challenger 2 L30, 120mm rifled tank gun from the Royal Ordnance division of BAE

Leopard L2A6 120 millimetre L55 Gun, has been developed by Rheinmetall GmbH of Ratingen, Germany to replace the shorter 120mm L44 smoothbore tankgun on the Leopard 2.

M1A2 Abrams 120mm M256 smoothbore gun, developed by Rheinmetall GmbH of Germany.

Sourced from

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/index.html
12 posted on 09/05/2003 6:45:05 PM PDT by KiaKaha
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To: KiaKaha
Cool, thanks.
All that I was aware of was that all three tanks used 120mm
guns and ours was German made (by Rheinmetall)
I didn't deal with tanks much, but I sure like watching them do the dance.
13 posted on 09/05/2003 6:52:41 PM PDT by cavtrooper21 (The only thing criminals will get from me is a .45 bullet or cold steel... Their choice.)
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To: cavtrooper21
Actually, the British use their own 120MM (I believe it is rifled).
14 posted on 09/05/2003 6:54:35 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: agincourt1415
Just curious what is the advantage of smooth bore? Higher Muzzel Velocity or Range or something else?

Long rod penetrators (20:1 and higher l/d ratios) cannot be spin-stabilized because the centrifugal forces would actually bend or break the penetrator.

15 posted on 09/05/2003 6:57:07 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: centurion316

Ted Stryker was unavailable for comment.

16 posted on 09/05/2003 6:58:08 PM PDT by dogbyte12
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To: dogbyte12
Shirley you can't be serious... or is it series...
17 posted on 09/05/2003 7:04:50 PM PDT by lmr (When will these liberals just STFU?)
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To: cavtrooper21
Actually the British use their own cannon which is rifled. The German cannon is smoothbore.
18 posted on 09/05/2003 7:17:24 PM PDT by mark_interrupted
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To: centurion316
"The armor's supplier, German military contractor IBD, could not be reached for comment yesterday."

We are buying mission-critical components from the fricking Krauts??????? What in blazes is going on??? This was put in place by the Klintonista Kwislings - whenever will the Bushies realize that they are obligated by their oaths of office to extirpate, fumigate and obliterate the Klintonista virus from all of the agencies. Next we will learn that the rotor blades for Marine One are being purchased from the Krauts or the Frogs or the Swedes, for the Lord's sake. Bad, really bad.

19 posted on 09/05/2003 9:25:06 PM PDT by Bedford Forrest (Roger, Contact, Judy, Out. Fox One. Splash one.)
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To: Bedford Forrest
We actually buy many things from foreign sources, especially NATO countries. In most cases, we require a U.S. Manufacturing capability, by a U.S. subsidiary operating under license to the foreign source. A few examples of German kit: the Fox NBC vehicle, Unimog engineer vehicle, 120mm cannon for M1 tank.
20 posted on 09/06/2003 6:42:10 AM PDT by centurion316
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