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To: judywillow
While Croats collaborated with the Nazis, so too did the Serbs with Stalin, and The USSR.

There is more than enough room for recriminations to go around, and neither group is innocent of abuse of the other.
The Serbs ended up with Tito after WW2, and while Tito worked with the USSR, he was not anti-American, but rather, pro-Tito.
Under his rule, serbian nationals spread throughout the former Yugoslavia to take up positions of power and authority, often using it to claim the best houses, land, and businesses.

When I was younger, I had some freinds and neighbors that were from Serbia, but from different generations.
The older generation told of the communists, and the murders of family members, of the confiscation of their farms.
They hated the communists.
And some told of the Nazis, WW2, the murders of family members, the war, fleeing to england, and then to the americas. ( Canada, then the U.S. )
They hated the Nazis, and some, the Croats.
The younger ones told of the lack of liberty, and they (or their parents ) slipping through the iron curtain to the relative freedom of the west.
They hated the USSR, but not necessarily communism, were ambivilant toward socialism.
Yet, others only knew of the old country from the stories of their parents, told many times.
To them, they were only stories, and they didn't really "hate" Nazis, Communists, Croats, Socialism, or anything.

Croatians under the Nazis killed as many Croatians as they did Serbs.
The Serbs in turn, killed as many Serbs as they did Croatians.
They both murdered Bosnians (Muslims) with equal efficiancy.

With the breakup of old Yugoslavia, and the fall of the Soviet Union, it was inevitable that there would be a blood-bath.
I knew it and said so, before it happened.
I understood the intense hatred between the Serbs and Croatians.
Likewise, that the Bosnians, often Muslims, would recieve a good portion of that fallout.

Serbian refugees from Croatia should leave it behind, and seek to settle in Serbia.
Attempting to re-settle in Croatia is tantamount to suicide, and they should know it.
They will never regain property, jobs, status or political (or any other kind of..) power in that nation.
They must simply accept that they are not and will not be accepted in that country for many generations, and let it be.
The Serbs are just being bull-headed, and will pay for it.

Consider this;
Where is the concern for the Russians that had lived in Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine, etc., etc., etc....
They too lost home, position, power, privilege, and were ostracized, and many were forced to leave what had been their home for generations.
They never became Latvians, Estonians, etc.. They remained russian, with the privileged status of being russian.
I don't hear anyone crying for them.

6 posted on 09/02/2003 10:14:58 PM PDT by Drammach
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To: Drammach; kosta50
While Croats collaborated with the Nazis, so too did the Serbs with Stalin, and The USSR.

The Serbs did not collaborate with Stalin and the USSR. The Serbs were fighting for their lives after being bombed and occupied by the Germans, being attacked where they lived in Croatia and Bosnia, and being attacked from surrounding countries, like Bulgaria. Tito, a Croat/Slovene, who was involved in attacking Belgrade during WWI, was given backing by the British and the U.S. which bombed targets for him. And the targets were often Serb civilian targets - apartments, churches, villages, etc. Anti-Serb propaganda and false crediting of Tito for battling Germans was spread by the "Allies." This false propaganda was discovered when the hundreds of US and other Allied airmen, who'd been shot down, were saved by the Serbs:

http://www.visi.com/~homelands/serbia/serbia_letter.html

The most incredible part of our rescue was that before each mission, our bomber crews were briefed by the highest levels of American intelligence that, if shot down over Yugoslavia, we were to stay away from the Serbian people as they were collaborating with the Germans and "cutting off the ears of American airmen" before turning them over. Only after we were shot down did we find out the amazing thoroughness with which the truth about the Serbs was being distorted.

Under his [Tito's] rule, serbian nationals spread throughout the former Yugoslavia to take up positions of power and authority, often using it to claim the best houses, land, and businesses.

Under his rule, Croats, Albanians, and Muslims who collaborated with the Nazis got off easy. Serbs who'd been moved out of Kosovo during the war were not allowed to go back and reclaim their property. Illegal immigrants from Albania were allowed to settle into Kosovo. Most of those holding the highest power were Slovenes like Kardelj and Dolanc. Also, many factories founded in Serbia were moved to the western republics in "case of Russian invasion from the East." Branicap (former Yugoslav and Freeper) told me: "Truck factories, weapons and tools, paper mills, sugar mills aeroplane production...were dispersed to Slovenia (trucks, paper, electronics) and Bosnia (aeroplanes, weapons). So, industries founded and developed in prewar Serbia were (privately) moved elsewhere! Serbia's loss!"

Kosta50, another Freeper, says the factories were dismantled "brick by brick" from Serbia and taken to Slovenia and other Republics.

Croatians under the Nazis killed as many Croatians as they did Serbs.

They did not. Serbs were their main target, and the Croats killed them by the hundreds of thousands. There is photographic evidence of Serb priests being hanged and Serbs about to get their heads cut off, also of starving Serb children in the camps. Croatia's stated official policy was to convert 1/3 (to Catholicism), kill 1/3, and expell the rest of the Serbs.

They both murdered Bosnians (Muslims) with equal efficiancy.

What is your proof of this? The Muslims joined in with the Ustasha. For all the repeated claims of Bosnian Muslims being killed - the population statistics shows a steady rise of them versus the rest in Bosnia throughout the last century. The Bosnian Muslims had their own S.S. division "by the order of Hitler and with the blessing of Jerusalem Mufti" and were known for their brutal attacks and atrocities against Serb civilians. This is historical fact and there is photographic evidence of them, and the Mufti's visiting those troops.

8 posted on 09/05/2003 4:07:25 PM PDT by joan
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