Mess Facts Needed

9/19/03 | SELF

[pyx]

Sending mess facts is fine, but be prepared for the cadre to ask him about facts on subjects that he has no knowlege. That is for stress.

Knowingly asking someone a question about a subject in which they have no knowledge can only elicit one response. The only appropriate answer in such a circumstance is; "I don't know -- however, I will endevor to find out the answer."
At that point, make a small note and honorably endevour to find out the answer. This doesn't seem terribly stressful, imo.

[AnAmericanMother]

My dad was at the Citadel in the language lab in '41 when he heard over the Spanish short-wave radio that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor.

He didn't believe he had heard it right, so he called the instructor who listened and said, yup, he'd heard it right.

Couple months later they backed the train up to the door and took 'em all away. Dad became a Combat Engineer (109th Combat Engineers, 34th Infantry, N. Africa and Italy) and retired some time in the 50s as a major (I think) after reserve duty conflicted with Choir Practice.

THEY didn't have any trouble getting into the Army! << g >>

[Cit72]

The only reply is, "Sir, no excuse sir." It is stressful if you were there.

[Robe]

Well , I’ll take a crack at an explanation......

1.If you think that there is no military connection to the Citadel drop by some time and
have a gaze at the bronze tablets beside the door to Summerall Chapel... it list all the
Cadets which gave their all for their country.
2. The rigors of the school provide the individual with a talent for “finding order in
chaos”
3. 98% of last falls graduating class are either, gainfully employed, in the military, or
pursuing graduate degrees. ( I challenge you to fine a better record outside of the military
academies)
4. As far as graduates from West Point ( Known to the Corps of Cadets as “ The High
School on the Hudson”... they look down on everyone who is not a grad.. so no big deal
there.
5. I damn sure where my son is at 11:00 p.m., he’s not going to be tanking beer at the
local pub
6. The Citadel is an organization which is dedicated to the Spiritual, Physical, Academic
as well as the Military aspects of young men (and now women also) Find that at your top
ten Party schools.
7. 40% of last years Graduating Class were commissioned as officers in the service of the
United States
8. And I damned proud that my son chose a road less traveled in a organization that can
trace its roots to before the American Revolution.....

There I think that about covers it .....

Robe

[Cit72]

Well said . . .

[Old Sarge]

...how the cadets there and at the other academies sort of looked down on and scoffed at the Citadel...

That always happens at the academies, especially the New York School for Boys aka West Point.

I undertand that there are programs available (ROTC) that would allow you to become and officer (like you could do at any other school), but a military obligation is not required upon graduation

Back in the days when I wore a young man's uniform, I was commissioned thru ROTC. Back then, it did indeed contain a service obligation - in my case, four years. The VMI/Citadel guys were also considered ROTC cadres as well, and that was their commissioning "source".

I think that if you want to get anywhere is SC going to the Citadel gets you in doors...

And THAT is part of the effect, though not all of it. Both colleges have a looong tradition, recognized state-wide. A lot of it is the prestige thing, USMA v. VMI/Cit. They aren't just "military high schools", these are accredited universities, who also are a commission source upon graduation.

Not much, perhaps alumni can help more...

[Cit72]

Yes, I know two other graduates of that class who took the "train ride". In fact, a book has just been published about it, although I don't recall the name or the author.

[Old Sarge]

Congratulate the fellow for me, Sir...

[bethelgrad]

that's interesting. i never knew that

[AnAmericanMother]

Dad never got his degree though.

By the time he got back (a little difficult since he was single and had no dependents) it was 1946, so he fast-talked the Dean of Emory Law School into letting him in without a bachelor's degree. (My dad could sell walk-in freezers to Eskimos in wholesale job lots.)

But he has always been complimentary of the Citadel. He was sort of a wild kid (his daddy died when he was only 10 and he was the baby in a family of all girls), and he said the Citadel began the growing-up process and WWII finished it up.

He also says that WWII was "a cinch" after the Citadel! (This from a guy who went in the second day at Anzio and fought his way up the Appennines . . . )

He is a great dad, BTW. :-D

[AnAmericanMother]

Re the New York School for Boys . . .

I rode against them on our college equestrian team. They play dirty (we beat 'em anyway).

[AnAmericanMother]

Hey, thanks, I'll look for the book!

A friend of mine just loaned me a privately printed history of the 38th EVAC (Hospital) that was attached to the 34th Infantry in N. Africa and Italy. His dad was the colonel.

I showed it to my dad, he said he was glad that he didn't know any of the principals, because he had never needed to avail himself of their services . . . and a good thing too. He was wounded a couple of times, but very lightly (not even a Blighty one) despite close encounters with friendly fire, exploding German mines (including a "bouncing betty" that turned out to be a dud), and in one case an 88 shell that passed right under his nose . . . but as he says a miss is as good as a mile.

He has continued to have near misses of the most hair-raising kind throughout his life (including light aircraft accidents and lightning strikes). He is absolutely the luckiest man I know.

[Robe]

When I look upon the fields of these Military Academies ( I’ve visited them all except for the USAFMC) filled with the best of the youth this country can conger up.. I can’t help get a tear in my eye.....Guess I’m gettin soft in my old age

[pyx]

The only reply is, "Sir, no excuse sir." It is stressful if you were there.

You're right, I was never at the Citidel. None-the-less, that reply seems a tad INCOMPLETE.
It seems to imply a more complete reply as, "Sir, no excuse sir. I don't know the answer to the question.". And then to say nothing more.

This seems a tad minimalist and appears to lack initiative, imo. While being precise and doing only what is specifically called for (as is necessary in combat) the reply you state still seems lacking.

Initiative within the scope of your orders, unit, responsibility and duty is a quality a thinking officer should have, imo.

My apologies, I still don't see how honestly and honorably admitting ignorance using a respectful tone is stressful.

[Cit72]

Your Dad sounds a lot like my Father. He was in engineering at the University of Pittsburgh and was called up in late '43. He managed to get to Normandy on D-Day plus thirty and served all the way to Germany including the Battle of the Bulge. His unit built the first post-war fixed span bridge over the Rhine.

E-mail The Citadel Alumni Association about the book, I am sure someone there cn help you.

[AnAmericanMother]

Thanks, I'll email them! (does he COUNT as an alum? extenuating circumstances and all that . . )

Dad never made it to France or Germany. Some of his unit did (his best friend got shot in the knee by the Vichy French - he's fine but still has the bullet in him), but he got sent to Greece to supervise the elections and get shot at by Communists (they missed.)

[The UnVeiled Lady]

Get the book "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu

Written in 500 B.C.

Great quotes and great book to take into battle.

[Robe]

Thanks a bunch for you contributions, and your kind words about the Citadel..
Gotta go to a dumb meeting ..I'll check in later tonight... Thanks Once more Folks
Robe

[HiTech RedNeck]

It sounds like a ritual, nothing more. The point is to get used to being buffeted around by seeming nonsense.

[Cit72]

There is no need to apologize. The answer is still,"Sir, no excuse sir." This is done while you are sitting at attention on the first couples inches of your chair serving the upperclassmen; while thinking about why you squad leader ordered you to report to him after mess; thinking about will I ever get my shoes shinned to the first sgt.'s satisfaction; thinking oh my God, classes start next week; plus many, many other things. The process is a nine month boot camp (the Fourth Class System) while attending college.