Four letters that shook the world (WWJD)

The Independent (U.K.) ^ | 08/01/03 | Vincent Graff

[Revolting cat!]

Hula Hoop, Mashed Potato, Rubik's Cube, WWJD! I'm waiting for the next craze!

[bluejean]

"Ah, good, someone to play with."

Hardly WWJD in this little line...

"Thanks for admitting that you don't read the Bible"

Wrong answer. My comments were to the effect that God is beyond us, is wholly other, and even though we have the scriptures, there are things about him that are unknowable. God is, to a large degree, unknowable. He's bigger even than YOU and YOUR MIND. That'll bother you, but it can be okay once you get used to the idea.

"Didn't Jesus' ministry have to do with revealing Himself to the world? "

Yes. But he did NOT reveal that he would NEVER be found at a rock concert. It's no where in there. He was found at parties with 'publicans and sinners'. He touched lepers. He hung out with poor people and cripples. He did have a tax-collector in his little ragtag band of disciples, but they were utterly despised (working for the damned Romans, they were). Another despicable type, getting to hang out with Jesus' in-crowd. He went to parties with these people where today's celebrity sluts and coke heads would have been right at home! Yes!

Jesus' in-crowd was the out-crowd to the religious hot shots of his day. They were insanely jealous. They also hated him for mixing with such hideous specimens of humanity rather than their educated, fire-and-brimstone, crossed t's and dotted i gloriously 'unspotted' selves. He simply didn't put up with them. He went his own way. And they weren't included in his little gang. The one who was curious and did get to know him, Nicodemus, had to sneak around because the RELIGIOUS TWITS would have wrecked his life if they'd known he was talking to the Son of God. It's all right there in the Bible.

Whatever all that noise is about blacks and HAM and hoods and sheesh!, etc. is evidently from some place in your personal life that could use some therapy or something. I won't even go there. I'm having too fine of a day.

"Actually the tax-collectors were some of the most wealthy men in Israel"

That's right! DOH! Jesus' disciples consisted of people from all walks of life, but the majority of them weren't what would be today's celebrities and CEO's, etc. I didn't say they were all tax-collectors. Sweeping generalizations don't cut it.

"There are no "if's", Jesus didn't attend a rock concert, so there is no fruit in speculating to the fruit of doing so..."

UM...besides the fact that there WEREN'T rock concerts back then, so Jesus couldn't NOT have NOT GONE to one, YOU'RE the one that brought this up as a hypothetical and called it blasphemy. Life presents little episodes in life where you make choices based on accumulated knowledge and experiences and deductions you arrive at along the way. For instance, a Christian might actually see a bridge person asking for money at an off-ramp and think, "Hmm. I don't want to give this guy the time of day." You might have, until that hellish bracelet came out, actually thought, "What would Jesus do?" Oooo. What's the answer? Ever see Jesus giving money away? Where? He gave Peter a coin once out of a fish's mouth. Nope, at no time do you see Jesus handing out money...heck, based on your reasoning, the heck with supporting charities of any kind. Please note that I am not saying what the outcome of your brush with people on the off-ramp of life should be. That's up to you.

I don't know what your 'American Religion' is. I can't say I go to that church. I gather you're from someplace better and righter and truer and cleaner and holier and shinier and my gosh, how is it you manage to walk among mere mortals such as we?

"WWJD is of anti-Christ"

Whoo hoo! Next time I see one of those sulphurous little bracelets, I'm going to spray it with a fire extinguisher, rebuke it in the name o' Jesus and demand it repent. Oh - but Satan CAN'T repent. Hmm. Maybe I'll just take my Bible and beat the wearer of such an atrocity until they see I'm a Christian by my love and accept my version of Christ. Oh, I'll make sure I list all the scriptures, too.

Oh well. Thanks for playing. I shan't participate any longer. It tires me so. I'm off to hang out with real people in real life. Have a happy day, you old sourpuss!

[Dr Warmoose]

My comments were to the effect that God is beyond us, is wholly other, and even though we have the scriptures, there are things about him that are unknowable.

You are changing your argument from "doesn't like to be figured out" to the orthodox "finite can't grasp the infinite". (the first presumes motive, the second is positional - I was challenging your assertions on motive.)

But he did NOT reveal that he would NEVER be found at a rock concert.

If you simultaneously chuck out principles in Scriptural teaching and find evidence in silence, then you could make that statement, but certainly could not be dogmatic on such a guess. Fortunately we have biblical principles that show that Christ would not go to a rock concert. Once again, there is that motive thing.

Jesus' in-crowd was the out-crowd to the religious hot shots of his day. They were insanely jealous. They also hated him for mixing with such hideous specimens of humanity rather than their educated, fire-and-brimstone, crossed t's and dotted i gloriously 'unspotted' selves.

OK, I am returning to my premise that the Scriptures are alien to you. The Pharisees hated Christ because he claimed to be God - that was considered blasphemy. Jesus Christ healed the sick on Sunday, they thought that he was a law breaker. Jesus Christ was found ministering to the lowly and they thought he was a drunk. The crowds that followed Him did so because He came to rescue them from bondage to the Law. Doing away with the law was real popular yet no one wanted to be saved. I don't know where you get off thinking that his was some sort of battle of the cliques.

Other than the wedding at Cana of Galilee, I am not aware of these "parties" that you are referring to. What I do see is "...when they saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners..." Is this where you project your family and friends made up of sluts and coke-heads into this picture?

...the RELIGIOUS TWITS would have wrecked [Nicodemus] life if they'd known he was talking to the Son of God. It's all right there in the Bible.

That's all made up in your head. What the Bible shows in John 7:50-52 was Nicodemus (a ruler of the Jews) standing up and defending Jesus Christ before the Sanhedrin and later assisting at His burial (John 19:39-42). The reason he came "at night" couldn't be because of fear (see above) but more likely because Jesus or Nicodemus was busy during the day. I can thank people like you though for eisegeting contradictory motive - it always reminds me of the fact that I am dealing with those who love their own imaginations and are not interested in God's word.

UM...besides the fact that there WEREN'T rock concerts back then, so Jesus couldn't NOT have NOT GONE to one

Once again facts are about to get in the way of your imaginary little world. But Middle Eatern scholars have long said that the music of the early ME was "voluptuous, noisy, and devised to drown out the cries of Phoenician victims burned at the altar of Moloch." Sounds like a typical Marilyn Manson concert. News Flash: Jesus didn't attend those.
Luke 7:32 "They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another, saying: 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we mourned to you, and you did not weep.'
Do you know how Jesus enjoyed His music? "And when they had sung a hymn, they went out unto the mount of Olives"(Mark 14:26)

I'll just take my Bible and beat the wearer of such an atrocity...

Undoubtably the most use your Bible will ever receive.

[bluejean]

"Fortunately we have biblical principles that show that Christ would not go to a rock concert.."

Sorry, you're chucking out scriptures and then finding evidence in silence. They're principles, not hard-coded rules that say specifically "Christ would not go to a rock concert" anymore than "Christ would wear Birkenstocks". What's this "motive" hangup you've got? If Christ DID go someplace you would not, his MOTIVE would be to reach out to, and draw to himself, the lost. What other motive is there?

I haven't said a word about continuing to live an unChristian lifestyle after one becomes a Christian. Jesus wasn't a Christian by the way, he was a Jew, which will really stoke the fires of indignation, I'm sure.

Our of ALL possible live music one could use as an example of a 'rock concert', you choose Marilyn Manson, who is undoubtedly a spawn of hell. Based on that ONE verse of scripture, you're claiming Christ would ONLY like hymns. Oh, horsepuckies. You don't know that Christ didn't enjoy a little background music at family gatherings or social events he attended. Based on your vast, unbounded knowledge of all things, you assume ALL music except for that hymn mentioned in that ONE scripture is fit for nothing but the dung heap. Talk about ripping the heck out of context. They sang a hymn because it was part of the ritual they were partaking in. That scripture doesn't say diddly-sqwat about what God thinks about all music or any other music. There was secular music and 'religious' music, just like today.

"The Pharisees hated Christ because he claimed to be God - that was considered blasphemy"

That's right, the fulfillment of THEIR interpretations of scriptures was happening before their eyes and they 'knew him not'. His claim was true and they denied him. They were infuriated because 'the whole world has gone after him' - they were losing their corner on the theological market. Their polls were down. Every time Jesus chewed them out in public for their abuse of simple people, their popularity lagged. He called them snakes and whitewashed tombs full of deadmen's bones. He told the truth about THEM and they hated him for it. They had LOTS of reasons to hate him. Having the AUDACITY to be Who he was really got to them.

"Jesus Christ healed the sick on Sunday, they thought that he was a law breaker"

He WAS breaking THEIR laws. He was NOT breaking HIS (God's). If you are going to sit there and get hung up, even now, in this century, on the idea that this entire event is about the LAW...my gosh, you're one sad sack.

"Jesus Christ was found ministering to the lowly and they thought he was a drunk."

He was EATING and DRINKING with them, it says that. You keep accusing me of not 'knowing the scrip-TURES' but you're just trying to be a hot shot. I suppose you think Jesus made non-alcoholic grapejuice at that wedding, too. Probably copyrighted and passed through FDA approval.

"Is this where you project your family and friends made up of sluts and coke-heads into this picture?"

This line is meant to cut and dice and do damage, and bring on violent thoughts and feelings, it is meant to KILL an opponent, and the conversation, because YOU need to WIN. It is petty, it is inconsiderate, it is disrespectful, it is mean, it is uncalled for, and you should be ashamed of yourself for playing the big knowledgeable ChrisTI-AN soul all afternoon and then drawing swords when you didn't like the results. Now you are a small, sniveling, ego-challenged soul, a small life with terrible wounds inside that you need to take out on other people. Yeah, you really wracked up some points with God on that one. What a grand Christian witness THAT was.

This conversation is ended.