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Abolish [goverment sanctioned] Marriage ?
Slate ^ | 2 July 2003 | Michael Kinsley

Posted on 07/05/2003 9:44:48 PM PDT by Lorianne

It's going to get ugly. And then it's going to get boring. So, we have two options here. We can add gay marriage to the short list of controversies—abortion, affirmative action, the death penalty—that are so frozen and ritualistic that debates about them are more like Kabuki performances than intellectual exercises. Or we can think outside the box. There is a solution that ought to satisfy both camps and may not be a bad idea even apart from the gay-marriage controversy.

That solution is to end the institution of marriage. Or rather (he hastens to clarify, Dear) the solution is to end the institution of government-sanctioned marriage. Or, framed to appeal to conservatives: End the government monopoly on marriage. Wait, I've got it: Privatize marriage. These slogans all mean the same thing. Let churches and other religious institutions continue to offer marriage ceremonies. Let department stores and casinos get into the act if they want. Let each organization decide for itself what kinds of couples it wants to offer marriage to. Let couples celebrate their union in any way they choose and consider themselves married whenever they want. Let others be free to consider them not married, under rules these others may prefer. And, yes, if three people want to get married, or one person wants to marry herself, and someone else wants to conduct a ceremony and declare them married, let 'em. If you and your government aren't implicated, what do you care?

In fact, there is nothing to stop any of this from happening now. And a lot of it does happen. But only certain marriages get certified by the government. So, in the United States we are about to find ourselves in a strange situation where the principal demand of a liberation movement is to be included in the red tape of a government bureaucracy. Having just gotten state governments out of their bedrooms, gays now want these governments back in. Meanwhile, social-conservative anti-gays, many of them southerners, are calling on the government in Washington to trample states' rights and nationalize the rules of marriage, if necessary, to prevent gays from getting what they want. The Senate Majority Leader, Bill Frist of Tennessee, responded to the Supreme Court's Lawrence decision by endorsing a constitutional amendment, no less, against gay marriage.

If marriage were an entirely private affair, all the disputes over gay marriage would become irrelevant. Gay marriage would not have the official sanction of government, but neither would straight marriage. There would be official equality between the two, which is the essence of what gays want and are entitled to. And if the other side is sincere in saying that its concern is not what people do in private, but government endorsement of a gay "lifestyle" or "agenda," that problem goes away, too.

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: government; marriage; michaelkinsley
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1 posted on 07/05/2003 9:44:48 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne
The divorce lawyers will then go out of business... uh, oh!
2 posted on 07/05/2003 9:49:02 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: Lorianne
INTSUM
3 posted on 07/05/2003 9:50:42 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Lorianne
What about insurance claims, what about polygamy. No you can't allow this to be a mere contract. Marriage is even MORE THAN a mere contract, Marriage is an institution of society. The marriage ceremony is a PUBLIC means of identifying the union of a man and a woman. No marriage is not a private matter. Marriage must continue to be a protected institution. The building block of any society.
4 posted on 07/05/2003 9:52:43 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
no because the contracts will be sued in court. You will only create a larger court nightmare with the added addition of delays.
5 posted on 07/05/2003 9:54:35 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: longtermmemmory
But, I thought that at the very heart of marriage, it was a legal contract binding two people. And, if the government leaves the process, is there any legal standing on this contract... how can you sue in a state court, if the government no longer has jurisdiction in marriage... does family law then radically change?
6 posted on 07/05/2003 9:56:39 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: Lorianne
While Kinsley is an idiot, I happen to agree with the idea of getting marriage out of the government. It should never have become a government sanctioned entity in the first place. It should have remained a religious ceremony, and as such, all of the government's regulations of families would not exist, including divorce or alimony.

If there were no governmental controls on marriage, people would be forced to choose their mates more wisely, and remain more committed then your average couple in society today. Most women love the power that the government has bestowed upon them in marriage, but they pay the price by finding fewer men ready to accept that kind of commitment.

7 posted on 07/05/2003 10:06:05 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Lorianne
I wonder if this is Bill Gates' opinion?
9 posted on 07/05/2003 10:24:29 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: Lorianne
The biggest problems that I see with this approach are immigration and children. Legal marriage serves a useful function in regard to both.

There are already plenty of fictitious marriages arranged for immigration purposes, but imagine the situation if marriage had no meaning in the eyes of the law. Either there would be millions of phony marriages and millions of new immigrants, or the government would have to decide what constituted an official couple and thousands of sincere married couples would be separated. Legal marriage may not be perfect in regards to immigration, but it's certainly better than bureaucrats determining whether a relationship exists or not. There's enough baggage involved in a legal marriage that most people don't enter into it lightly.

In regard to children, it's pretty obvious that legal marriage is a key ingredient in providing a stable and financially secure home. The joint ownership of property and the legal rights and responsibilities involved with marriage make couples less likely to separate and more likely to prepare for the long term.

10 posted on 07/05/2003 10:29:32 PM PDT by elmer fudd
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To: longtermmemmory
While I completely agree with you, look at all the couples today, heterosexual that just don't get married. There's no incentive to get married, with taxes being what they are, etc.

There's also the mentality today of, "well if it doesn't work, because we're just living together, we can walk away". I'm going through a separation and divorce right now, but the day I spoke my vows I was sure it was forever. I fought damn hard for that marriage but my spouse refused to meet me half way. I believe he wanted out all along. Needless to say, I will be quite gun-shy myself for a long time to come.

11 posted on 07/05/2003 10:32:05 PM PDT by ward_of_the_state
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To: Pukin Dog
Please explain where you got the ideas that, with the governemnt out of marriages, people would choose more wisely, there'd be fewer divorces, and that " women love the power that the government has bestowed upon them in marriage ". WHY ? Because it's gibberish and loony.

From the beginnings of recorded history, whether in a theocratic ruled tribe or nation ( the Hebrews/Israel ), or a governmentaly imposed set of laws ( anciet Egypt, Greece, and Rome ), there always was divorce, someone got the children and wealth ( back then and until only rather recently it was the man;now [i.e. the 20th century, starting in the late 20s )it is uaually, but not always, the woman. When the Catholic church took over the majority of the laws governing all marriages ( the early Middle Ages, or thereabouts ), they even made rules about when the couple could copulate ( not often ! ), who could and who could NOT marry, and divorce ( which were few and extremely difficult to get; not to mention EXPENSIVE and CORRUPT ! )and still, the man was favored. Early , middle and later Protestanism ? More or less the same thing.

Today's generation of young adults, brought up on a surfit of media garbage and left over " sexual revolution " garbage/propaganda, not only doesn't know how to commit, they don't understand what a marriage really is all about.

That women's power drivel is warmed over male stupidity and lack of understanding. Been hit hard by some woman/women, have you ?

12 posted on 07/05/2003 10:39:50 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons
Today's generation of young adults, brought up on a surfit of media garbage and left over " sexual revolution " garbage/propaganda, not only doesn't know how to commit, they don't understand what a marriage really is all about.

Are you too dumb to realize you answered your own question?

13 posted on 07/05/2003 10:42:02 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Marriage is one of the 7 sacraments which is a binding contract between the participants and God. I am still happily married after three children to the woman who remains my best "best" friend. Leagal contract: kiss my ass!!! Sue, sue this. The heart of marriage after love and passion for 27 yrs is commitment, trust, communication, and the friendship that started it all.
14 posted on 07/05/2003 11:03:17 PM PDT by Atchafalaya
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To: Pukin Dog
No this is about whether government will recognize
the God created institution of marriage and the family
as the number one institution of man.
To do define it anyway you want is to take away
that recognition so to do what Kinsley wants is
to do the same things the gays advocates want.

This would be like saying we are going to get
the government out the business of recognizing and
upholding contracts between businesses.
That would effect mean government was no longer
recognizing the market.

The family, Church, the market and the State are all institutions created by God and they must recognize
each other or otherwise our Republic cannot stand.

Ultimately the Supreme Court is trying to say that
the State is the only legitimate institution of
society it is taking an extreme Marxian approach
which followed to its logical ends leads to total
tryanny of the State.
15 posted on 07/05/2003 11:25:18 PM PDT by Princeliberty
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Let's privatize all laws. I can shoot someone
and kill them and there are no police to arrest me.
And if someone kills me for it fine.
If I have enough money to hire thugs to protect
me and kill anyone who challenges me fine too,
we are leaving it all private.

There are different institutions of mankind that
God has created(family, church, the market, the state) they all have their different areas of authority and duties
they must carry out. When they try to take the authority
away of another institution or violate the rights
of an individual the whole Republic is threatened.

Keeping each in its proper place and having each fully
do that which is supposed to do is the key to keeping
society healthy.

What has happened the state has been mutating into
a monster than tries to do all the realms of authority.
16 posted on 07/05/2003 11:31:01 PM PDT by Princeliberty
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To: Pukin Dog
While Kinsley is an idiot, I happen to agree...

Say no more!
17 posted on 07/05/2003 11:36:36 PM PDT by cartoonistx
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To: elmer fudd
birth certificate = marriage certificate

Simple, secular, biological...

18 posted on 07/06/2003 7:04:14 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Princeliberty
What has happened the state has been mutating into a monster than tries to do all the realms of authority.

The legacy of no-fault divorce. When people continuously refuse to honor one another, what is a promise before God?

19 posted on 07/06/2003 10:00:46 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: Atchafalaya
In our culture, many think that getting married is "just getting a piece of paper". My husband and I married in a civil ceremony. However, I always think of the day we got married as the day we promised each other, and God, that we would remain together forever.
20 posted on 07/06/2003 10:03:04 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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