Posted on 06/30/2003 4:26:21 PM PDT by unspun
(BTW, if I understand correctly, because of his centrality to the cause of the independent American Republic, John Adams was asked to pen the Declaration of Independence, but decided to solicit Jefferson to do the same, believing Jefferson to be a more talented scribe.)
I believe you are correct. This can become a deep philosphical topic and I am no expert either. However, Francis Schaeffer explains in his writings that a line of thought beginning with Rousseau ("the noble savage") sprang up which held that morals can be discerned by observing nature. Shaeffer contended that this is a flawed way of looking at the world because nature is both cruel and non-cruel (i.e. morally neutral), but people are made in God's image and one cannot use nature to establish one's ethics.
Yes and Rousseau even revised his political philosophy, painting over his search for the Noble Savage with his view of bumping and grinding out a Social Contract, somewhat acquiescent to the understanding that many others already related by his time.
To Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse - Monticello, June 26, 1822 - 1822062
Now, which of these is the true and charitable Christian? He who believes and acts on the simple doctrines of Jesus? Or the impious dogmatists, as Athanasius and Calvin? Verily I say these are the false shepherds foretold as to enter not by the door into the sheepfold, but to climb up some other way. They are mere usurpers of the Christian name, teaching a counter-religion made up of the deliria of crazy imaginations, as foreign from Christianity as is that of Mahomet. Their blasphemies have driven thinking men into infidelity, who have too hastily rejected the supposed author himself, with the horrors so falsely imputed to him. Had the doctrines of Jesus been preached always as pure as they came from his lips, the whole civilized world would now have been Christian. I rejoice that in this blessed country of free inquiry and belief, which has surrendered its creed and conscience to neither kings nor priests, the genuine doctrine of one only God is reviving, and trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die an Unitarian.
"[I]f governments arise from the consent of men, and are instituted by men according to their own inclinations, they did therein seek their own good; for the will is ever drawn by some real good, or the appearance of it. This is that which man seeks by all the regular or irregular motions of his mind. Reason and passion, virtue and vice, do herein concur.... A people therefore that sets up [government does it so]...that it may be well with themselves and their posterity."OK, Anna. Here is a tagline plug post. Have you ever had one, before? Sounds like something a person could use to dry laundry, at the very least. May it do at least as well by you.
- Algernon Sidney
Revising history is a tool of the left.
Oh my....
I've copied Jefferson's own words here. Accuse him of being untrue to himself if you like, but please leave me out of it. ;-)
Classical Literature Having Significant Influence Upon the American ColonistsBTW, what did you think of how John Adams summed up sources of the Revolution? We don't hear much about those writers he is first to mention (John Poynet and Algernon Sidney). Do you suppose that is because of their strong Biblical Christian principles?
Classic Philosophers and Poets, Most of the founding fathers in America were thorougly familiar with these Greco-Roman authors: e.g., Aristotle, Plato, Cicero, Virgil.
The Latin Library, (Cicero, Livy, Horace, etc.) Ability to read these sources extemporaneously was an entrance requirement at colonial schools such as Harvard.
The Vulgate, The Holy Bible in Latin.
The Bible, The best Bible online, which allows the user to immediately discover the Hebrew and Greek words behind the English words.
The Bible, This book was, of course, the most influential piece of literature in Colonial America.
St. Augustine , The church father of choice among American Puritans.
St. Augustine , English translations of his works on predestination which greatly influenced the Puritans.
If it is the intent of this site to support the US as a Christian nation, then let us know. If the intent to to identify sources for the US as a country and government then the pagans must get their due and the cite has a serious omission problem.
Once again, I'll suggest you take it up with Jefferson.
Indeed and I suspect they will.
Well that didn't quite get a rush of responses.... ;-` Let me try one more bit of postitng:
Those intent on destroying the American Republic use many creative techniques to make govenment's influence a bad influence, an influence that steals our freedom, either in a statist sooner or a corrupted libertarian later, and degrades our "civic virtue" as bb has well mentioned and the "general Welfare," as the Constitution declares.
Moreover, those intent upon pulling us from our roots love the idea that while they are free to do whatever they can, we conservatives are duped to believe that our governmental influence must be restricted to the Lockian (and Rousseauian) double negative: that government's only legitimate role is to compel us not to violate another's rights (a false ideal that the American Republic has never managed to attain).
However, the man John Adams cites first among those offering a detailed rationalie for a well balanced republic (and whom Jefferson also ceded) Algernon Sidney, believed in God's intent goodness (virtue) and God's ability to be good through people, rather than God naturalistically leaving it only for us to keep from making life even worse by our official capacities. Sidney stated the following, for example:
"[I]f governments arise from the consent of men, and are instituted by men according to their own inclinations, they did therein seek their own good; for the will is ever drawn by some real good, or the appearance of it. This is that which man seeks by all the regular or irregular motions of his mind. Reason and passion, virtue and vice, do herein concur.... A people therefore that sets up [government does it so]...that it may be well with themselves and their posterity."
"Nothing can be called stable, that is not so in principle and practice, in which respect human nature is not well capable of stability; but the utmost deviation from it that can be imagined, is, when such an error is laid for a foundation as can never be corrected. All will confess, that if there be any stability in man, it must be in wisdom and virtue, and in those actions that are thereby directed; for in weakness, folly, and madness, there can be none. The stability therefore that we seek, in relation to the exercise of civil and military powers, can never be found, unless care be taken, that such as shall exercise those powers, be endowed with the qualities that should make them stable."
"Virtue is the dictate of reason, or the remains of divine light, by which men are made beneficent and beneficial to each other. Religion proceeds from the same spring; and tends to the same end; and the good of mankind so entirely depends upon the two, that no people ever enjoyed anything worth desiring that was not the product of them; and whatsoever any have suffered that [which] deserves to be abhorred and feared, has proceeded either from the defect of these, or the wrath of God against them. If any [leader] therefore has been an enemy to virtue and religion, he must also have been an enemy to mankind, and most especially to the people under him."
"But if all depended upon the will of a man, the worst would be often the most safe, and the best in the greatest hazard; slaves would be often advanced, the good and the brave scorned and neglected. The most generous nations have above all things sought to avoid this evil: and the virtue, wisdom, and generosity of each, may be discerned by the right fixing of the rule, that must be the guide of every man's life, and so continue their magistracy, that it may be duly observed. Such as have attained to this perfection, have always flourished in virtue and happiness: they are, as Aristotle says, governed by God, rather than by men, whilst those who subjected themselves to the will of a man, were governed by a beast."
Sidney demonstrated man's most pivotal guiding principles in his relationships with his fellow man: love, faith, and hope. Since these are man's guiding principles, of course they must be applied in the means of self governance of a free people. This means that we are free to be proactive instead of merely reactive. (We are free to be so, as conservatives -- classic liberals -- based upon what will allow us in their eventual result, the greatest, good freedom.) It also means that our public influence may be used to actively support the dynamics of self-reliance and our private interdependencies, especially in family and institutions of faith, and in private enterprise. We can and should and must use our influence in government not just to kick people's doors in, but only when we absolutely have to -- and not to just send ambulances and apply prisons and morgues, after the fact of evil behavior.
We must devise and institute ways of instilling and supporting virture in our culture, including the use of government and by this pull out of the sprung trap of a false necessity to be, as government, either impotently shrugging and hands-off, or in the other extreme overly forceful and reactive.
Yes, Yes and yes. If we conduct ourselves righteously others observe and imitate because they see it can be done. I teach my children the word. They then question what they don't understand and I answer or find the answer. We both learn. Also throughout the course of a typical workday I interact with many people. I try to be ever mindful of my actions so as not to give the wrong impressions. I also routinely offer many thanks and praise to God for various things while talking with folks. Ranging from waking, the weather, good health and fortune and everything in between. On occasion I have even thanked folks for pointing out my mistakes/errors so that I learn from them and strive not to repeat.
Why do I say all this? Not to blow my horn but to be able to state that my actions in relation to others has for a very long time now resulted in very positive face to face communications. I am the first to admit that my formal education is limited but in trusting God and seeking his guidance I find things flow rather easily. And if I can do it anyone can. It always seems to be when I try to rely on my own will solely or someone elses direction that I encounter obstacles. Love.
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