North Hollywood Shootout

6/17/03 | Scooter 2

[stumpy]

Bear in mind it was LAPD the politically correct dept. I have a buddy that works for them and took a 7 day suspension for having deer slugs in his personal car when he went to work.

[Conspiracy Guy]

PC is gonna get more cops killed. the bad guys know it to. Civilians here carry more firepower than those poor souls had.

[Shooter 2.5]

Bang

[Abe Froman]

This thread brings up an interesting point----

A lot of pro-gun literature I have read concerning full-auto weapons states that there has only been one "incident" involving a full-auto gun in the 70-plus years in which they have been effectively banned in the U.S. (except for specially licensed rich collectors.) This fact has been used to great effect in many arguments. The incident in question involves an off-duty police officer murdering his wife with a full-auto rifle. From what I have read, I was under the assumption that this was the *only* illegal use of a full-auto weapon since the ban, but obviously the North Hollywood shootout makes it at least two. Or is it simply that there has only been one homicide with a fully automatic gun, and there have been other crimes committed but they didn't result in a death?

[Navy Patriot]

Abe, the stats you cite are correct, but refer to legally owned and registered (tax Stamped) full auto firearms. They don't include illegal converted, unregistered firearms in that stat.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"A G3 (military HK91) will rearrange your dental work. You've got to put some ass behind it to keep it under control."

Amen. Even on a concrete bench with a bipod, it would take some shoulder, and some practice to make tshots 2-20 count for anything.

That said, all lawful citizens have the right to such weapons (which right is currently infringed.)

[Atlas Sneezed]

"Every single time you hear a talking head on TV say anything firearms related you are quite safe in assuming that they are completely wrong, ignorant and possibly being intentionally misleading."

Every time anyone on TV or in the press covers an issue you know much about, you realize that they are almost ALWAYS wrong about almost EVERYTHING. (Hyperbole, but essentially true.)

[LibTeeth]

Deer slugs would have made for some effective head shots out to maybe 75 yards. They'd sure transfer some momentum to light body armor also. The silly thing is the LAPD are afraid to issue slugs for riot guns because of penetration concerns, but picked up a bunch of M16A1's from the DoD presumably for just such incidents. There seems to be a disconnect there.

[nerdwithamachinegun]

Myths and misconceptions. The "one incident in 70+ years" is related to a crooked cop in Dayton OH who used a LEGALLY REGISTERED M11 to gun down one of his informants. There have been other incidents. For example, a Las Vegas lawyer used a legally registered MP-40 (incorrectly known as a Schmeisser) to hold up a casino but didn't fire any rounds. These are both verifiable via Lexis/Nexis. The victim's family tried to sue the county Sheriff who signed this cop's Tax form (ATF Form 4). There have been a boatload of crimes commited with ILLEGALLY CONVERTED AND UNREGISTERED machineguns since the 1934 NFA was passed. In states that allow possession of NFA controlled items there generally is no "license" per se. I don't have a license for anthing but driving and concealed carry but I legally possess a machinegun. Prices have been skyrocketing but you don't have to be rich to buy one. Being rich sure helps though. If you can take out some home equity or get a $5K signature loan and get a signoff then in states where you're considered adult enough then there are a variety of very nice and entertaining machineguns to be legally had.

[nerdwithamachinegun]

I can put a 20 round burst into a B27 target at 25 yards with a G3 or an FAL but only after having practiced it.

I'm not sure that it's a useful skill but it's funner'n hell!

[ezo4]

"Every single time you hear a talking head on TV say anything firearms related you are quite safe in assuming that they are completely wrong, ignorant and possibly being intentionally misleading."

Oh man you got that so right!

[xsrdx]

With a police issue sidearm a person who can't make a head shot at 50 yards needs to go to the range.

I don't know that these guys were that far away, but 50 yards is a LONG way to make a clean headshot against a moving target, under fire, with a service pistol.

Pack up your fixed sight Beretta, some 9mm JHP, head out to the range, and set up an 8" steel plate at 50 yards. Do about 15 pushups, and maybe 50 jumping jacks, draw your pistol, and whack that plate. It won't be easy.

Now, remember the plate can't shoot back with FULL AUTO 762 slugs, and it's stationary.

Good luck. It's amazing how well everybody on FR can shoot.