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North Hollywood Shootout
6/17/03
| Scooter 2
Posted on 06/17/2003 10:05:32 AM PDT by scooter2
I need some FReeper help with some research on the North Hollywood Shooutout (Bank Robbery). Does anyone know just where the perptrators obtainrd full auto AK47's. They surely didn't get them at a local sporting goods store.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: California
KEYWORDS: ak47; banglist; bankrobbery
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Yes, I know this is a vanity post, but I can't find the needed info.
1
posted on
06/17/2003 10:05:32 AM PDT
by
scooter2
To: scooter2
If I remember correctly, they were modified using handmade parts.
2
posted on
06/17/2003 10:07:42 AM PDT
by
cavtrooper21
("..he's not heavy, sir. He's my brother...")
To: scooter2
I think they were converted SKS's. At any rate a little marksmanship on behalf of PD would have shortened the whole ordeal.
3
posted on
06/17/2003 10:09:14 AM PDT
by
Conspiracy Guy
(Read Buddy's, (the labrador retriever), new book about the Clintons, "Living Hell")
To: scooter2
All I could find was this..
http://www.vpc.org/studies/wgun970228.htm Where'd They Get Their Guns?
An Analysis of the Firearms Used in High-Profile Shootings, 1963 to 2001
Date: February 28, 1997
Location: North Hollywood, California
Alleged Shooters: Emil Dechebal Matasareanu and Larry Eugene Phillips, Jr.
People Killed: Two (shooters killed by police)
People Injured: 16
Firearm(s): Multiple fully automatic assault rifles including an AK-47 type
Circumstances
On February 28, 1997, Matasareanu and Phillips tried to rob a Bank of America branch office in North Hollywood, California. While trying to escape, the two men engaged in a shootout with police. Though vastly outnumbered, the two menarmed with automatic weapons and wearing body armorsuccessfully held off law enforcement personnel for hours before being shot and killed by police.
How Firearm(s) Acquired
The weapons were originally bought at a gun show and then illegally resold to Matasareanu and Phillips.
I will keep looking on how they got them to auto. No info on that here. Don't know how reliable the site I got this info from was..
4
posted on
06/17/2003 10:15:36 AM PDT
by
eXe
(The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war)
To: Flurry
They may have HAD an SKS, but if I recall correctly, most of the shooting was done with H&K 93A's.
Also, weren't all these guns smuggled in from Mexico? I seem to remember a Mexican connection......
5
posted on
06/17/2003 10:18:49 AM PDT
by
Puppage
(You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
To: scooter2
A couple of months ago I recall the find of a fairly significant cache nearby, I think in Chatsworth or Van Nuys. My guesses as to source - NORINCO / PLA, Red Mafiya or Mexican Drug Cartels.
6
posted on
06/17/2003 10:19:05 AM PDT
by
GOP_1900AD
(Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
To: eXe
That stupid movie said an "AK" was confiscated from them at a traffic stop and then ordered to be given back to pay court costs. I have to assume this was before an illegal full auto conversion was performed on the gun.
7
posted on
06/17/2003 10:20:04 AM PDT
by
FNG
To: eXe
..... how they got them to autoI'm sure it started by shaving the sheer pin, among other steps.
8
posted on
06/17/2003 10:20:32 AM PDT
by
Puppage
(You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
To: scooter2
There are different opinions about this. I believe that they were part of the first "Chinese DNC Donor" shipment of full-auto, short barreled AKS's. The shipment that wasn't intercepted by U.S. Customs. There also is still some debate over whether or not they jammed as first reported or merely ran out of ammo.
Full discussion:
To: scooter2
I don't know how they got the guns, but there ought to be a federal law requiring all bank robberies use full-autos. For all the spraying and praying the perps did, there were zero fatalities resulting. If they had only had a single shot bolt-action rifle, they might have taken the trouble to aim, and might have killed somebody.
To: Flurry
They were illegally converted. Those guys had been picked up previously on weapons charges.
Factory full auto AK fire control parts are readily available. Converting an AK is a little involved but not too hard. I don't believe for a second that they used "hand made parts" in the sense that they machined an autosear out in the garage and welded a trip on the bolt carrier. They probably got all the neccessary parts then modified the receiver for the autosear and slapped it together.
One of the other weapons used was an HK91 which was also illegally converted. It fires a more powerful round and is more readily converted but is less controllable on auto and the magazines are usually of lower capacity. A G3 (military HK91) will rearrange your dental work. You've got to put some ass behind it to keep it under control.
The SKS was never designed as anything other than a semi-automatic infantry rifle. Originally they came with a 10 round semi/mostly-internal magazine loaded from the top by stripper clips like a '98 Mauser or '03 Springfield. Frequently they are modified with junky 30 round mags that usually don't work well.
The AK and SKS are very different rifles. Converting an SKS to work in semi AND full auto is pretty involved and not practical. The Chinese have produced factory examples of such rifles but not in large numbers.
Hacking nearly any semi-auto firearm to fire full auto is well within the capabilities of most idiots. The usefulness of automatic fire is an entirely different discussion.
I agree that a greater degree marksmanship probably would have ended things more quickly. I watched the TV coverage live and was pretty amazed at police rounds impacting six feet from the apparent targets.
Every single time you hear a talking head on TV say anything firearms related you are quite safe in assuming that they are completely wrong, ignorant and possibly being intentionally misleading. This is more frequently the case when a reporter utters the sounds "AK", "SKS", "machinegun", "assault rifle" and the word "automatic" in any relation to the subject of firearms.
Reporturds and scared witnesses frequently mistake an SKS for an AK.
To: nerdwithamachinegun
I watched the New Orleans Howard Johnsons siege on live TV channel 10 in early 70s this was the pre SWAT days. The idiot police rushed a metal door on top of the building from two different angles that were such that they were deflecting rounds into each other. Back to N Hollywood, With a police issue sidearm a person who can't make a head shot at 50 yards needs to go to the range. It should have been obvious that a headshot was necessary. At anyrate I've seen little actual coverage and didn't know as much as you. Thanks
12
posted on
06/17/2003 11:12:49 AM PDT
by
Conspiracy Guy
(Read Buddy's, (the labrador retriever), new book about the Clintons, "Living Hell")
To: Flurry
"A little marksmanship"?
The LAPD was armed with handguns, the robbers with rifles!
"Outgunned" is the operative word here.
13
posted on
06/17/2003 12:20:09 PM PDT
by
Redbob
To: Puppage
"I'm sure it started by shaving the sheer pin, among other steps."Doing that makes it 'full auto' alrighty, but it's one long rip - once you pull the trigger, she keeps on until the mag is empty.
Entertaining, perhaps, but not all that useful.
14
posted on
06/17/2003 12:23:19 PM PDT
by
Redbob
To: Flurry
Not everybody wearing body armor wears a sign saying "Hi! I'm wearing body armor today!"
15
posted on
06/17/2003 12:27:33 PM PDT
by
Redbob
To: Redbob
The little bit of this I saw the perps were in handgun range for a headshot once the kevlar was evident. I understand how 2 gunmen could pin down a couple of cops with enough firepower but It seems they pinned down half the PD. Heck in Birmingham somebody would have been getting a BAR out of the trunk within 2 minutes of officer in trouble call.
16
posted on
06/17/2003 12:36:19 PM PDT
by
Conspiracy Guy
(Read Buddy's, (the labrador retriever), new book about the Clintons, "Living Hell")
To: Redbob
Like I said the little bit of this I've seen, I'd have said body armor. I respect our law enforcement people more than most but they were under gunned and under armed.
17
posted on
06/17/2003 12:40:33 PM PDT
by
Conspiracy Guy
(Read Buddy's, (the labrador retriever), new book about the Clintons, "Living Hell")
To: Redbob
And undertrained. If you use the sqaud car for cover make sure the engine is between you and the perp. I believe if I shoot twice at the chest and they don't go down the head is next. But these guys looked like hockey goalies with out head protection. Maybe I've been shooting to long but at the speed and distance I'd have made a headshot. The little bit I saw looked like TV Cops.
18
posted on
06/17/2003 12:48:28 PM PDT
by
Conspiracy Guy
(Read Buddy's, (the labrador retriever), new book about the Clintons, "Living Hell")
To: scooter2
19
posted on
06/17/2003 1:19:22 PM PDT
by
archy
(Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
To: archy
Thanks.
20
posted on
06/17/2003 1:30:35 PM PDT
by
m1911
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