Shock and awe not only for Iraqis {The "Fair" tax cometh}

WorldNetDaily ^ | 4/16/2003 | By Joan Veon

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

WorldNetDaily / Commentary

Shock and awe not only for Iraqis

Posted: April 16, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Joan Veon
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

While jubilant Americans can't help but be fixated on "revolutionary" military operations they have witnessed on television for the past two weeks – called "Shock and Awe" – most are not aware that Americans are about to receive their own economic "Shock and Awe."

Many forget that while Rome burned, Nero was busy deflecting attention away from the real center of action. For example, the front page of the March 8 Washington Post featured a huge picture showing the burning of Baghdad with all but 5 percent of the front page devoted to the war in Iraq. However, at the bottom was the "bunker buster" which will shatter our own field of dreams here in America.

While the house voted well past midnight several weeks ago to approve the full tax plan of $726 billion, the Senate cut it by half when they voted several days later. While you may think this is not a sure thing, a recent editorial, entitled "Lay off the Tax Candy," in the Washington Post explained the deceptive game now being played. They said that there is some fine print in the Senate version that provides for some fancy footwork which gives them the ability to vote for the full amount, while making it look like they are against it.

Unfortunately, our government has not really made clear what this tax law is all about. From the extensive research I have done, I consider this proposal to be the most heinous change as it will destroy the ability of the middle class to sustain their economic power while enhancing the upper classes.

If enacted, this legislation, will deliver the final blow to the ability of "Joe and Jane Average" to get ahead. It should be pointed out that its title is a misnomer. This plan will not stimulate the economy but will cause much larger deficits, which will be borne by Americans as a result of the war, which is being waged.

Recently at the G7 finance ministers meeting, Secretary Snow, who likes to snow people, basically said that this increased deficit spending could be seen as a type of "capital spending" that most companies do when they want to expand. If it does not work, it is not the shareholder who has lost out, it is the entire populace of America. After the $4 to 6 trillion Nasdaq crash, most Americans who suffered any type of substantial loss are not looking to the market for answers.

The proposed legislation will, instead, change the entire tax code of America from a tax on income to a tax on consumption over a 10-year period. At this point in history, we are the only developed country not to have this form of taxation – which means Bush is globalizing our tax laws. In other words, he is harmonizing our tax laws and system to conform to what the major European industrial countries have. In my opinion, this basically will set the platform for a global IRS. By the way, the United Nations has been working on these kinds of ideas for the last 30 years.

Under this VAT (value-added tax), every time a purchase is made, there will be up to a possible 27 percent tax on it. This tax could replace the tax on income, making only consumption taxable while all forms of income are tax-free. There are some countries that have a value-added tax plus a tax on income while America is the only country without a VAT, but has a tax on income.

For those who have enough savings to live off of their income, this is a windfall, but for those who have only debt with little or no savings, this will create a financial burden equal to the Israelites having to make bricks without straw.

At the heart of this plan is the elimination of tax on corporate dividends. Again, if you obtain your living from stock dividends, this will be like going to heaven. No tax on income – only a tax on what you buy. Let's look at three different sets of individuals.

First we have Old Money Harry. He has never had to have a real job because he gets his living from the family trust. All of the family assets – the fabulous house, the cars, the summer homes, the yacht, the Mercedes and Rolls are held by the family trust, along with title to three large commercial pieces of real estate. Harry made several killings buying and selling real estate because the gains were tax-free since they were inside the family trust. The only downside is that the income from the trust is taxed.

However, under the proposal to reduce tax brackets – which is necessary in order to make the rates flat – from 38 percent to 21 percent, it won't hurt as much. Harry will have 17 percent more to spend. Only what you buy will be taxed – however, if you have it in a trust, no tax. Old Money Harry will achieve growth unsurpassed under the proposed tax-stimulus plan, just like the Kennedys, the Rockefellers, the Mellons and anyone else with this arrangement.

Next are John and Jane Middleclass. Both have reasonably good jobs with attractive incomes. They both have advanced degrees and live in the "executive home" to match their rising social status. They lease a Lexus and Jaguar and think nothing of packing up and going to Vale or to the Bahamas at a moment's notice. They have re-financed the house several times to add a new wing, exceptional landscaping and a pool.

While they know they are basically spending everything they are bringing in, they rationalize by thinking about the rising equity in their home and how much they will be able to cash out when they retire. Unfortunately their 401ks got zapped during the NASDAQ crash.

Donnie and Susie Squeeze are 25 years old. Donnie served in the military and works as a mechanic for the local Honda dealer. They have three small children and Susie works part-time at the local grocery store. They are saving for a down payment on a home and hope to send their kids to college if they can afford it. Right now they are just barely making ends meet.
============

In order to explain the proposed tax stimulus program, let us take a look at who will come out like a bandit. Old Money Harry will be able to double his assets because he has the right tools: a pile of money and a trust. He will basically pay very little tax considering his income and assets. The stock dividends will be tax free, and other sources of income may be tax free, depending on if he takes advantage of the new Lifetime Savings Accounts.

Joe and Jane Middleclass will experience some drop in tax on income. However, once the proposed stealth tax is in full force, they probably will not have any tax break from the mortgage interest expense because it had to be sacrificed in order to pay for the other parts of the tax package. Since they have no savings outside of their 401ks, they won't have any benefit from the tax-free sources of income.

But because they like to spend, they will pay 21 to 27 percent every time they make a purchase. There is no doubt their spending habits will change. If the economy tanks and one of them gets laid off, they might have to sell the house. If the economy is not doing well, who will buy their house and at what price?

Donnie and Susie Squeeze are about to be squished. Their tax bracket will have to rise in order to help pay for the new tax law, but since they have very little savings they really won't feel the benefit of tax free dividends and investment income. Since they are still accumulating, every time they buy a car, a dishwasher, etc., they will pay a hefty consumption tax.

Unfortunately, the thought of buying a house might be out of the picture since it too will have a 21 to 27 percent tax. Depending on whether the U.S. can stimulate the economy enough to pay for the war, they may be on the hook for the cost of war.

Lastly, it's time to examine what George Bush stands for, because it appears he is trying to harmonize our tax laws with the other countries of the world. There has been no clarification – let alone an announcement – that the Bush administration is changing the tax code. Why keep truth from the American people? What happened to the country that the colonists fled to from the British and European feudalistic systems?

THIS article at WorldNetDaily

[Principled]

It is the individual who is liable for the tax.

This much should be obvious. It is the individual who pays the tax.

However, it is the business who is liable for showing that the tax has been paid, NOT the individual. Further, the business is paid for this service under the nrst.

[lewislynn]

Uh, the new excise tax bureaucracy would be in addition to the sales tax bureaucracy...I made the false assumption you had enough knowledge of the sales tax plan to know that.

[Always Right]

However, it is the business who is liable for showing that the tax has been paid, NOT the individual. Further, the business is paid for this service under the nrst.

Here is a link to one of the most recents NRST bills up for consideration. Notice that it is solely the individual that is punished.

[Always Right]

Link is only temporty, here is the text:

`SEC. 505. PENALTIES.

`(a) FAILURE TO REGISTER- Each person who is required to register pursuant to section 502 but fails to do so prior to notification by the sales tax administering authority shall be liable for a penalty of $500.

`(b) Reckless or Willful Failure To Collect Tax -

`(1) CIVIL PENALTY; FRAUD- Each person who is required to and recklessly or willfully fails to collect taxes imposed by this subtitle shall be liable for a penalty equal to the greater of $500 or 20 percent of tax not collected.

`(2) CRIMINAL PENALTY- Each person who is required to and willfully fails as part of a trade or business to collect taxes imposed by this subtitle may be fined an amount up to the amount determined in accordance with paragraph (1) or imprisoned for a period of not more than 1 year or both.

`(c) Reckless or Willful Assertion of Invalid Exemption-

`(1) CIVIL PENALTY; FRAUD- Each person who recklessly or willfully asserts an invalid intermediate or export sales exemption from the taxes imposed by this subtitle shall be liable for a penalty equal to the greater of $500 or 20 percent of the tax not collected or remitted.

`(2) CRIMINAL PENALTY- Each person who willfully asserts an invalid intermediate or export sales exemption from the taxes imposed by this subtitle may be fined an amount up to the amount determined in accordance with paragraph (1) or imprisoned for a period of not more than 1 year or both.

`(d) Reckless or Willful Failure To Remit Tax Collected-

`(1) CIVIL PENALTY; FRAUD- Each person who is required to and recklessly or willfully fails to remit taxes imposed by this subtitle and collected from purchasers shall be liable for a penalty equal to the greater of $1,000 or 50 percent of the tax not remitted.

`(2) CRIMINAL PENALTY- Each person who willfully fails to remit taxes imposed by this subtitle and collected from purchasers may be fined an amount up to the amount determined in accordance with paragraph (1) or imprisoned for a period of not more than 2 years or both.

`(e) RECKLESS OR WILLFUL FAILURE TO PAY TAX - Each person who is required to and recklessly or willfully fails to pay taxes imposed by this subtitle shall be liable for a penalty equal to the greater of $500 or 20 percent of the tax not paid.

`(f) Penalty for Late Filing-

`(1) IN GENERAL- In the case of a failure by any person who is required to and fails to file a report required by section 501 on or before the due date (determined with regard to any extension) for such report, such person shall pay a penalty for each month or fraction thereof that said report is late equal to the greater of--

`(A) $50, or

`(B) 0.5 percent of the gross payments required to be shown on the report.

`(2) INCREASED PENALTY ON RETURNS FILED AFTER WRITTEN INQUIRY- The amount of the penalty under paragraph (1) shall be doubled with respect to any report filed after a written inquiry with respect to such report is received by the taxpayer from the sales tax administering authority.

`(3) LIMITATION.-The penalty imposed under this subsection shall not exceed 12 percent.

`(4) Exceptions-

`(A) REASONABLE CAUSE- No penalty shall be imposed under this subsection with respect to any failure if it is shown that such failure is due to reasonable cause.

`(B) OTHER WAIVER AUTHORITY- In addition to penalties not imposed by reason of subparagraph (A), the sales tax administering authority, on application, shall waive the penalty imposed by paragraph (1) once per registered person per 24-month period. The preceding sentence shall not apply to a penalty determined under paragraph (2).

`(g) PENALTY FOR WILLFULLY OR RECKLESSLY ACCEPTING A FALSE INTERMEDIATE OR EXPORT SALES CERTIFICATE- A person who willingly or recklessly accepts a false intermediate or export sales certificate shall pay a penalty equal to 20 percent of the tax not collected by reason of said acceptance.

`(h) Penalty for Late Remittance of Taxes-

`(1) IN GENERAL- A person who is required to timely remit taxes imposed by this subtitle and remits taxes more than 1 month after such taxes are due shall pay a penalty equal to 1 percent per month (or fraction thereof) from the due date.

`(2) LIMITATION- The penalty imposed under this subsection shall not exceed 24 percent.

`(3) EXCEPTIONS FOR REASONABLE CAUSE- No penalty shall be imposed under paragraph (1) with respect to any late remittance if it is shown that such late remittance is due to reasonable cause.

`(i) Penalty for Filing False Rebate Claim-

`(1) CIVIL PENALTY; FRAUD- A person who willingly or recklessly files a false claim for a family consumption allowance rebate (within the meaning of chapter 3) shall--

`(A) pay a penalty equal to the greater of $500 or 50 percent of the claimed annual rebate amount not actually due, and

`(B) repay any rebates received as a result of the false rebate claim (together with interest).

`(2) CRIMINAL PENALTY- A person who willingly files a false claim for a family consumption allowance rebate (within the meaning of chapter 3) may be fined an amount up to the amount determined in accordance with paragraph (1) or imprisoned for a period not more than 1 year or both.

`(j) PENALTY FOR BAD CHECK- If any check or money order in payment of any amount receivable under this subtitle is not duly paid, in addition to other penalties provided by law, the person who tendered such check shall pay a penalty equal to the greater of--

`(1) $25, or

`(2) two percent of the amount of such check.

`(k) PENALTY FOR FAILURE TO MAINTAIN A SEPARATE SEGREGATED ACCOUNT- Any person required to maintain a separate segregated account pursuant to section 501(e) that fails to maintain such a separate segregated account shall pay a penalty of $1,000.

`(l) PENALTY FOR FAILURE TO DEPOSIT COLLECTED TAXES IN A SEPARATE SEGREGATED ACCOUNT- Any person required to deposit collected taxes into a separate segregated account maintained pursuant to section 501(e) that fails to timely deposit said taxes into the separate segregated account shall pay a penalty equal to 1 percent of the amount required to be deposited. The penalty imposed by the previous sentence shall be tripled unless said taxes have been deposited in the separate segregated account or remitted to the sales tax administering authority within 16 days of the date said deposit was due.

`(m) JOINT AND SEVERAL LIABILITY FOR TAX MATTERS PERSON AND RESPONSIBLE OFFICERS- The tax matters person (designated pursuant to section 502(c)) and responsible officers or partners of a firm shall be jointly and severally liable for the tax imposed by this subtitle and penalties imposed by this subtitle.

`(n) RIGHT OF CONTRIBUTION- If more than 1 person is liable with respect to any tax or penalty imposed by this subtitle, each person who paid such tax or penalty shall be entitled to recover from other persons who are liable for such tax or penalty an amount equal to the excess of the amount paid by such person over such person's proportionate share of the tax or penalty.

`(o) CIVIL PENALTIES AND CRIMINAL FINES NOT EXCLUSIVE-

`(1) CIVIL PENALTY- The fact that a civil penalty has been imposed shall not prevent the imposition of a criminal fine.

`(2) CRIMINAL FINE- The fact that a criminal fine has been imposed shall not prevent the imposition of a civil penalty.

`(p) CONFIDENTIALITY- Any person who violates the requirements relating to confidentiality of tax information (as provided in section 605(e)) may be fined up to $10,000 or imprisoned for a period of not more than 1 year, or both.

`(q) CROSS REFERENCE-

`For interest due on late payments, see section 6601.

`SEC. 506. BURDEN OF PERSUASION AND BURDEN OF PRODUCTION.

`In all disputes concerning taxes imposed by this subtitle, the person engaged in a dispute with the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary, as the case may be, shall have the burden of production of documents and records but the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary shall have the burden of persuasion. In all disputes concerning an exemption claimed by a purchaser, if the seller has on file an intermediate sale or export sale certificate from the purchaser and did not have reasonable cause to believe that the certificate was improperly provided by the purchaser with respect to such purchase (within the meaning of section 103), then the burden of production of documents and records relating to that exemption shall rest with the purchaser and not with the seller.

`SEC. 507. ATTORNEYS' AND ACCOUNTANCY FEES.

`In all disputes concerning taxes imposed by this subtitle, the person engaged in a dispute with the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary, as the case may be, shall be entitled to reasonable attorneys' fees, accountancy fees, and other reasonable professional fees incurred in direct relation to the dispute unless the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary establishes that its position was substantially justified.

`SEC. 508. SUMMONS, EXAMINATIONS, AUDITS, ETC.

`(a) SUMMONS- Persons are subject to administrative summons by the sales tax administering authority for records, documents, and testimony required by the sales tax administering authority to accurately determine liability for tax under this subtitle. A summons shall be served by the sales tax administering authority by an attested copy delivered in hand to the person to whom it is directed or left at his last known address. The summons shall describe with reasonable certainty what is sought.

`(b) EXAMINATIONS AND AUDITS- The sales tax administering authority has the authority to conduct at a reasonable time and place examinations and audits of persons who are or may be liable to collect and remit tax imposed by this subtitle and to examine the books, papers, records, or other data of such persons which may be relevant or material to the determination of tax due.

`(c) LIMITATION ON AUTHORITY IN CASE OF REFERRAL- No administrative summons may be issued by the sales tax administering authority and no action be commenced to enforce an administrative summons with respect to any person if a Justice Department referral or referral to a State Attorney General's Office is in effect with respect to such person relating to a tax imposed by this subtitle. Such referral is in effect with respect to any person if the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary has recommended to the Justice Department or a State Attorney General's Office a grand jury investigation of such person or a criminal prosecution of such person that contemplates criminal sanctions under this title. A referral shall be terminated when--

`(1) the Justice Department or a State Attorney General's Office notifies the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary that he will not--

`(A) prosecute such person for any offense connected with the internal revenue laws,

`(B) authorize a grand jury investigation of such person with respect to such offense, or

`(C) continue such a grand jury investigation, or

`(2) a final disposition has been made of any criminal proceeding connected with the internal revenue laws, or conforming State sales tax , against such person.

`SEC. 509. RECORDS.

`Any person liable to remit taxes pursuant to this subtitle shall keep records (including a record of all section 510 receipts provided, complete records of intermediate and export sales , including purchaser's intermediate and export sales certificates and tax number and the net of tax amount of purchase) sufficient to determine the amounts reported, collected, and remitted for a period of 6 years after the latter of the filing of the report for which the records formed the basis or when the report was due to be filed. Any purchaser who purchased taxable property or services but did not pay tax by reason of asserting an intermediate and export sales exemption shall keep records sufficient to determine whether said exemption was valid for a period of 7 years after the purchase of taxable property or services.

`SEC. 510. TAX TO BE SEPARATELY STATED AND CHARGED.

`(a) In General- For each purchase of taxable property or services for which a tax is imposed by section 101, the seller shall charge the tax imposed by section 101 separately from the purchase. For purchase of taxable property or services for which a tax is imposed by section 101, the seller shall provide to the purchaser a receipt for each transaction that includes--

`(1) the property or services price exclusive of tax ;

`(2) the amount of tax paid;

`(3) the property or service price inclusive of tax ;

`(4) the tax rate (the amount of tax paid (per paragraph (2)) divided by the property or service price inclusive of tax (per paragraph (3));

`(5) the date that the good or service was sold;

`(6) the name of the vendor; and

`(7) the vendor registration number.

`(b) Vending Machine Exception- The requirements of subsection (a) shall be inapplicable in the case of sales by vending machines. Vending machines for purposes of this subsection are machines--

`(1) that dispense taxable property in exchange for coins or currency; and

`(2) that sell no single item exceeding $10 per unit in price.

`(c) Financial Intermediation Services Exception- The requirements of subsection (a) shall be inapplicable in the case of sales financial intermediation service. Receipts shall be issued when the tax is imposed (in accordance with section 803 (relating to timing of tax on financial intermediation services)).

`SEC. 511. COORDINATION WITH TITLE 11.

`No addition to tax shall be made under section 505 with respect to a period during which a case is pending under title 11, United States Code--

`(1) if such tax was incurred by the estate and the failure occurred pursuant to an order of the court finding probable insufficiency of funds of the estate to pay administrative expenses; or

`(2) if--

`(A) such tax was incurred by the debtor before the earlier of the order for relief or (in the involuntary case) the appointment of a trustee; and

`(B) the petition was filed before the due date prescribed by law (including extensions) for filing a return of such tax , or the date for making the addition to tax occurs on or after the date the petition was filed.

`SEC. 512. APPLICABLE INTEREST RATE.

`(a) In General-

`(1) Federal short-term rate- In the case of a debt instrument, investment, financing lease, or account with a term of not over 3 years, the applicable interest rate is the Federal short-term rate.

`(2) Federal mid-term rate- In the case of a debt instrument, investment, financing lease, or account with a term of over 3 years but not over 9 years, the applicable interest rate is the Federal mid-term rate.

`(3) Federal long-term rate- In the case of a debt instrument, investment, financing lease, or account with a term of over 9 years, the applicable interest rate is the Federal long-term rate.

`(b) Federal Short-Term Rate- The Federal short-term rate shall be the rate determined by the Secretary based on the average market yield (selected by the Secretary and ending in the calendar month in which the determination is made during any one month) on outstanding marketable obligations of the United States with remaining periods to maturity of 3 years or fewer.

`(c) Federal Mid-Term Rate- The Federal mid-term rate shall be the rate determined by the Secretary based on the average market yield (selected by the Secretary and ending in the calendar month in which the determination is made during any 1 month) on outstanding marketable obligations of the United States with remaining periods to maturity of more than 3 years and not over 9 years.

`(d) Federal Long-Term Rate- The Federal long-term rate shall be the rate determined by the Secretary based on the average market yield (selected by the Secretary and ending in the calendar month in which the determination is made during any 1 month) on outstanding marketable obligations of the United States with remaining periods to maturity of over 9 years.

`(e) Determination of Rates- During each calendar month, the Secretary shall determine the Federal short-term rate, the Federal mid-term rate and the Federal long-term rate which shall apply during the following calendar month.

`CHAPTER 6--COLLECTIONS; APPEALS; TAXPAYER RIGHTS

`Sec. 601. Collections.

`Sec. 602. Power to levy, etc.

`Sec. 603. Problem resolution offices.

`Sec. 604. Appeals.

`Sec. 605. Taxpayer rights.

`Sec. 606. Installment agreements compromises.

`SEC. 601. COLLECTIONS.

`The sales tax administering authority shall collect the taxes imposed by this subtitle, except as provided in section 404 (relating to Federal administration in certain States).

`SEC. 602. POWER TO LEVY, ETC.

`(a) IN GENERAL- The sales tax administering authority may levy and seize property, garnish wages or salary and file liens to collect amounts due under this subtitle, pursuant to enforcement of--

`(1) a judgment duly rendered by a court of law;

`(2) an amount due if the taxpayer has failed to exercise his appeals rights under section 604; or

`(3) an amount due if the appeals process determined that an amount remained due and the taxpayer has failed to timely petition the Tax Court for relief.

`(b) EXEMPTION FROM LEVY, SEIZURE, AND GARNISHMENTS- There shall be exempt from levy, seizure, and garnishment or penalty in connection with any tax imposed by this subtitle--

`(1) wearing apparel, school books, fuel, provisions, furniture, personal effects, tools of a trade or profession, livestock in a household up to an aggregate value of $15,000; and

`(2) monthly money income equal to 150 percent of the monthly poverty level (as defined in section 303).

`(c) LIENS TO BE TIMELY RELEASED- Subject to such reasonable regulations as the Secretary may provide, any lien imposed with respect to a tax imposed by this title shall be released not later than 30 days after--

`(1) the liability was satisfied or became unenforceable; or

[Principled]

Your link doesn't work.

In HR 25, the "Fair Tax", it is the BUSINESS who is liable for being able to prove the tax has been paid, NOT the individual. That's one of the basic, fundamental pillars of the bill.

I have no idea what bill you're trying to link.

[3Lean]

EEE, some comments on your post.
1. Manufacturers don't pay taxes on raw materials that are destined for products. These materials are exempt. If you are implying that the income tax that the producer paid is included in the cost of the raw material, you are correct.
2. Same comment about taxes on products sold to sellers.
3. Only state and local taxes are levied on products being sold to consumers.
4. 1, 2 and 3 do not account for excise taxes, which are another animal entirely.
5. Under the NRST, how do you deal with the black market? 20-30% savings is quite an incentive for sales outside the government's control. I believe this is an issue in countries with VATs much lower than 20-30%.
6. The gradual payment (payroll deduction) plan is, IMHO, what got us into the tax mess we have now. If people had to write a check to Uncle Sam every April 15th for the entire amount of taxes they owe their would be a tax revolt in this country immediately. If I have to hear one more idiot tell me "the government had to refund $x to me" as if it were a good thing I may be in jail soon.
7. In the past 20 years my state has more than doubled the sales tax. How, by billing the increases as "only 1%", "only a penny", etc. How would you prevent this with NRST?

My solution (for all to take shots at) is a flat tax, no deductions (the famous "postcard" tax return"). All taxes are due the day before the general election date in November. That keeps the tax rate and election tied in everyone's mind, with instant feedback to the elected officials. Again, IMHO, that is the best way to get lower taxes rather than higher.

[lewislynn]

With the NRST if a person doesn't want to pay the tax they can choose to not buy the item -- and they can still get a check every month to cover the tax up to the poverty level

Is getting a welfare check every month supposed to impress me? Where does that money come from?

[Principled]

more attempts at misinfo...

[kevao]

NRST...It is DESIGNED to put the onus on those who are starting out, and must buy EVERYTHING in order to JUST get by.

If you exempt food, clothing and shelter from the tax, then the onus would not be on those people, who spend some 90% of their income on these items.

[Principled]

Is getting a welfare check every month supposed to impress me? Where does that money come from?

The REBATE is not welfare, as welfare is transferred from other individuals. A REBATE is money already paid. Folks who receive the rebate are just receiving the money they'll pay in taxes on necessities. It's not a transfer from any other individual....it is money paid back to yourself...just like any REBATE. Look it up.

[Zon]

And shove it up your ass while you are at it asshole.--Always Right

ROTFL!!!

That is absolutely hilarious -- a real gem. No wonder you're always right.

[Zon]

Libertarian don't get elected, why would I read their platform?

You said you lean libertarian, so naturally I thought you knew the platform. As I said, I'm not a libertarian, but I have read the platform. Libertarians do get elected, so your wrong on that count.

Zon: The flat tax involves government initiation of force and or threat of force -- "report your income and pay the tax or we'll fine you and put you in prison".

That is the visceral hatred I think could be tapped over time to return us to a pre-1913 American republic free from the DC tax regime; a return to true federalism.

The graduated income tax and flat income tax feeds that "visceral hatred" because they both sanction the initiation of force and threat of force against taxpayers. The national retail sales tax (NRST) doesn't feed it it eliminates the sanction.

These days I lean rather Jeffersonian I guess.

"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." -- Thomas Jefferson

For what it is worth, NST advocates semm more interested in abolishing the IRS than destroying the DC tax regime.

It's the national retail sales tax (NRST), not national sales tax. There's a very big difference, but you already know that. Your opinion is noted.

But if you eliminate the collection at the docks and just slap a tax on it, the power of the Fed will grow as monetary policy will determine the price of imports.

Tax reform is not the end all be all. Tax reform is but one of five key components to resolving the leviathan-government problem.

[Zon]

Is getting a welfare check every month supposed to impress me?

It's not a welfare check. It's a way to recover the tax that must be paid on necessities, like food and medicine, which aren't taxed now, up to the poverty level for each household. A 23% percent retail sales tax on necessities would be far to heavy a burden on the poor thus the reason for the tax probate check. It's not a welfare check and it has been explained to you several times how and why it's not a welfare check. It makes no difference to me how you chose to present yourself -- it's your credibility, not mine.

You're the one person on the tax threads that has, by far, most discredited themselves. You're the undisputed champion, lewislynn.

[Always Right]

That is absolutely hilarious -- a real gem. No wonder you're always right.

Thanks, too bad it was deleted as was the post that prompted the well deserved comment.

[Zon]

Thanks,

Ahem, breaking the rules of the person's "living room" (forum) you've been invited into and "crapping on the floor" (making a blatant personal attack against another guest) is not something to be applauded. I wasn't applauding you -- scorn or ridicule perhaps, but applauds or praise, most certainly not.

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

Z, Joe and Jane "Sixpack" don't influence politicians. Millionaires do. If people making millions of dollars had to pay the same rate as on their income, they would be clamoring to get that rate lowered. While sipping their favorite beverage, under the NRST, they would probably talk about the government supplied amenities we "all" should have. Concert halls, museums, ballparks and arenas, race tracks, etc and conclude that the tax rate needs to be raised. It's already happened. It caused the Boston tea party. Your utopia just don't exist. Peace and love, George.

[Always Right]

A personal attack prompted my personal attack, buddy.

[Always Right]

I have yet to find one of you NRST zealots who do not engage in personal attacks. Everytime someone comes in and suggests an opposing opinion they are personally attacked. So get off your hypocritical high horse.