[Sabertooth]

But what if President Bush suddenly accepted the advice of opponents of the war, stopped the American invasion, pulled most but not all of U.S. and British forces out of the region, and went back to the United Nations for a renewal of arms inspections. As best I can tell, that's what the protesters in the United States and around the world would like. And so would the French and their allies and maybe even Howard Dean.

Result number one: Saddam would win. He would be the king of the Middle East and free to slaughter the tens of thousands of Iraqis who didn't come to his defense. He would have forced the superpower to retreat. Countries that aided the United States in the war would have to come meekly to terms with Saddam. Hopes for an Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement would be dashed again, this time by the strengthening of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, whose power has been ebbing, and various terrorist groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

Fred loses me here. If the result of this Iraq War, like the result of the Gulf War, is to pressure Israel into further capitulation against their genocidal enemies, the false, lying "palestinians," we will have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

The "palestinians" are for Hussein . They have always been so. What do they get in return? A Nobel Peace Prize and Israeli land.

How does more weakness now, to prevent the strengthening of the Egyptian Arafat, yet rewarding Arafat, serve peace?

There is no possibility of peace so long as fantasies of an "Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement" lap at the minds of pundits and politicians. To ignore the Historical fact that Jordan is the true fictitious "palestinian" homeland, is to reward decades of terrorism, yet again. More will follow. Wars will follow, and they will be worse in the future than if we and Israel fought them now.

The possibility of democracy being planted in Arab states would also be gone.

That possibilty vanished when the Muslims killed or drove the Christians out of Lebanon.

Islamic democracy? You may as well hold your breath for Stalinist democracy. The only Islamic democracy, Turkey, was built on decades of genocide against Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians, and more. Even so, Christians have been fleeing Turkey for decades. The Turkish Christian population is a fraction of what it was only a few decades ago.

The article was intended to cast aspersions on the anti-war crowd. It was successful in that. Unfortunately, it revealed more of the folly to follow the successful prosecution of this war, from people who should know better.

[Torie]

Barnes comment about the Palestinian conflict is somewhat silly, since it has its own unique dynamic. But as to Iraq, it has the best chance if conditions are right of achieving some semblance of democracy of anywhere in the Arab world among the major players. You heard it here first. I say that because Iraq has the highest educational levels, and the largest critical mass for a middle class as a percentage of the population of the major Arab countries, and Islamic fundamentalism is at a rather low level, thanks in part to Saddam. Saddam was and is evil, but not a total prince of darkness. He still needs to die soon however, assuming he is not aleady dead. I don't want my words to be misunderstood.

[MHGinTN]

Islamism is theocratic totalitarianism. Minds steeped in sucha perspective cannot wrap around the notion of free self-governance, like trying to instruct a carp on the vagaries of sunbathing in the Arizona desert.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Excellent post, Saber. Thank you!

[FITZ]

Hopes for an Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement would be dashed again,

I think what he means (but it's late here and maybe I'm not thinking) is that that strengthening Palesininans --aka Arafat isn't going to bring peace or any kind of peace settlement (because their goal is to destroy Israel, not live with it in harmony). A peace settlement is more likely when it's clear that Israel will exist and the Palestinians will just have to deal with that.

[FITZ]

The possibility of democracy being planted in Arab states would also be gone.

He doesn't say "Islamic" states but "Arab" states. Islamic state is obviously incompatible with democracy. Maybe he's talking about some of the more secular states where freedom and democracy seeds could be planted ---but wouldn't be if we folded.

[Captain Beyond]

I think Fred is operating on the theory that Arafat is the palestinian Hussein. That if SH is removed and replaced with a democratic Iraq the same would happen if Arafat is removed and the peaceful palestinians then will enact a democratic government. Now if that is possibility or not I don't know mainly because of all the "Hate the Jews" indoctrination that has went on for some many years and that the Arab world has shunned them for the beginning. Jordan and the rest of the Arab world did not want nothing to do with the palestinian refuges except to use them as pawns against Israel.

[ApesForEvolution]

I was off this site, but had to see what you were up to. Excellence as usual. Fred means well and is often on the $, but you nailed it. We are dealing some real vermin here. And there. And over there as well. G'night.