Soldiers Frustrated At Being "Nice Guy" (MUST READ!!)

Chicago Sun-Times (Daily Telegraph) ^ | March 25, 2003 | Oliver Poole

[Dirk McQuickly]

CENTRAL IRAQ--"I lost a scout this morning to sniper fire and my first sergeant was hit by a mortar yesterday. That means I am taking it a little bit personally. How am I meant to protect my men when the generals are denying me the ability to bomb enemy positions?"

On the outskirts of the Iraqi town of Samawah, U.S. Army Capt. David Waldron and his company of tanks are locked in a defensive formation. His men are under intermittent attack. They are also increasingly angry.

From Basra to Karbala, south of Baghdad, allied troops are under attack from soldiers in civilian clothes and Saddam's shadowy Fedayeen paramilitaries.

And yet 50 percent of the coalition's desired targets are being vetoed by high command for fear of hitting a sensitive "no combat zone."

In the latest insight into the resistance, one of Waldron's patrols stopped a civilian car and found an armed Iraqi in the back seat. Only this was not a trained soldier but a 12-year-old boy, his face stricken with terror as he hugged an AK-47.

According to the unit that detained him, the boy said he had been given the weapon by men from the paramilitary forces.

Saddam knows that Washington, worried about alienating public opinion, is eager to avoid inflicting civilian deaths. But there are indications that he has adopted a plan to try to make it appear that the coalition forces are doing just that.

As one of Waldron's tank commanders, Sgt. Robert Byrd, put it: "It's time to stop trying to be Mr. Nice Guy. They are bombing us. Let's start bombing the hell out of them."

Of the more than 300 prisoners taken by Waldron's battalion, most have been in civilian clothing.

"I am meant to be in Karbala by now and instead we are screwing around here," he said. "My sentries were so jumpy last night they were getting nervous about donkeys--and we are in tanks for God's sake.

Daily Telegraph

[Dirk McQuickly]

These are extremely disconcerting comments. We're hearing today that Basra has fallen back into Iraqi hands? What the hell is going on?

[RippleFire]

BUMP

[CatoRenasci]

Anyone taken armed in civilian clothing is (1) not subject to the Geneva Convention, and (2) subject to being shot on sight under the traditional rules of warfare. We should 'make it so'.

[ventana]

BTTT :( V's wife.

[Cboldt]

These are extremely disconcerting comments. We're hearing today that Basra has fallen back into Iraqi hands? What the hell is going on?

The media is attacking your resolve.

The campaign is not perfect, and even if it was, there would be somebody complaining about how it was prosecuted.

[MJM59]

I don't think that we ever really held Basra. It was contained more than anything. However, there appears to be a pocket of resistance hiding out in there like rats. So, we'll have to go in there and exterminate them the hard way.

[Destructor]

The "rules of engagement" need to be reviewed. As it stands now that set of rules is costing American Soldiers, Marines, and Airmen their lives. America doesn't need to pull it's punches. We need to hit the Iraqis hard, and make 'em holler "Uncle."

[Dirk McQuickly]

That would be fine if these were some journalist's comments. This came from the tank commander. That's what's disconcerting. Troop morale needs to be a priority.

[honway]

It's time to stop trying to be Mr. Nice Guy. They are bombing us. Let's start bombing the hell out of them."

These Generals and politicians didn't learn a damn thing from studying Vietnam.

God help the U.S. fighting man and woman.

This report makes my blood boil. This PC driven, "Religion of Peace" crap has got to end when American soldiers are dying on the battlefield.

[Our God given right to be free]

I'm certainly compassionate toward the citizen's of Iraq but if they get in the way whether by their choice or not sorry but they have to go. I personally wish the innocent citizens would find a way out of the towns to safety so we could level their damn towns along with their soldiers. These extemely evil doers must be eliminated or ther will be NO safe place in the world!!!!!!

[Cboldt]

That would be fine if these were some journalist's comments. This came from the tank commander. That's what's disconcerting. Troop morale needs to be a priority.

The campaign is not perfect, and even if it was, there would be somebody complaining about how it was prosecuted. In this case, the somebody is a tank commander. There are also Air Force/Army/Marine/Navy rivalries that will come off as negative comments, and discontent between superiors and workers is part of reality. Oftimes the second-guessers are proven right. The action will not be prosecuted "perfectly."

Troop morale is better than public morale, at this point.

[clouda]

Well said!!

[=Intervention=]

Maybe you don't mean to be humorous, but this statement was, nonetheless. Just because a bunch of greenhorn reporters think it's the end of the world yet again does *NOT* mean the rest of us have to swallow that line, too.

[savedbygrace]

It's time to let the White House hear from us about this.

[Publius6961]

the generals are denying me the ability to bomb enemy positions?"

If this can be verified and documented, I would love to see it.
A half-assed war is a war against ourselves.
I value American lives a lot more than that. No lives for PR or PC, please.

I will reserve my true feelings for when this statement is documented.

[yoe]

Lift the "no combat zone" regulations to "all combat zone". This is NOT a police action, this is WAR and the lives of our military are at stake. Other than the Geneva rules, this is not about political correctness. The enemy is deadly serious about killing US soldiers anytime, anywhere for any reason. Stop the bs, we’re wasting time and precious lives taking prisoners, they are enemy combatants in all sorts of uniforms and disguises; take no prisoners and get on with it – once the word is out that we shoot to kill...

[jackbob]

Soldiers always gripe up and down the chain of command. The media always gives a distorted report. And the whiners always whine about both. And when I do it, its grumbling.

[canalabamian]

I'm waiting for the first EPW bomber. Raise the black flag now!

[BushCountry]

The United States suffered 148 killed in action, 458 wounded, 121 killed in nonhostile actions and 11 female combat deaths during our very successful 1991 Gulf war. We are well below that now (15 killed in action) and on the doorstep of Bagdad! Some people just can't take success!!!! Jeez, this is the most successfully executed war in history of mankind as it stands now. Every record is being broken. We are going against a fairly strong army.

[stimpyone]

But don't these folks know that we're here to liberate them - just like the Vietnamese?

[honway]

Troop morale is better than public morale, at this point.

How am I meant to protect my men when the generals are denying me the ability to bomb enemy positions?"

If these are indeed the rules of engagement, I am afraid you are badly mistaken.

These generals need to get their $hit together, fast. The war of liberation was a falacy sold by bad intel from the CIA. The Iraqi people do not want liberation, they want destruction of U.S. forces.

If our politicians and generals are not prepared to wage total war, our soldiers,sailors, mairines and airman will pay the ultimate price for this PC war.

[stimpyone]

These Generals and politicians didn't learn a damn thing from studying Vietnam

The politicians running this war (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, etc.) ducked Vietnam.

[Cboldt]

If these are indeed the rules of engagement, I am afraid you are badly mistaken.

The "If" in your statement is duly noted.

[dd5339]

Ping!

Semper Fi

[Wolfie]

These Generals and politicians didn't learn a damn thing from studying Vietnam.

They learned all too well. Its easy and effective to trade soldiers' lives for career advancement.

[Minty]

Could that be all there is? I can't believe for one that they be. Definitely even when we are paying a precious price with the lives of our boys and girls, I refuse to believe that PC would take common sense out of our generals. These guys knows how to damage and destroy, that is their purpose and expertise. I believe that even though things may look shaky now in the end there will be nothing left of our enemies, not even seed of them. Sometimes is worth to wait for our chance, they then will hit them once just once because there will be nothing left to hit again.

They will squirm and die in the sun. Those guys are yellow in their pants, fedayin and all, special or not, our boys are following the yellow line they leave behind. The more they speak the worse they cover their fear and desperation. I have never seen worse liars than these. Our boys and girls will tango with them. Their judgement day is closing fast on them and THEY KNOW IT!

I only hope for the unearthing of the whole truth regarding Russia, France and the whole United Nations of Crime role in aiding and abeting this crimirat that is SadDam. I want it to go farther in the revealing of their true nature, purpose and agenda. Then every drop of blood and suffering will be worth it.

[AppyPappy]

In reality, more people are being murdered in America than we are losing in the Gulf.

[holdmuhbeer]

The British are in the process of cleaning out the city as we speak.

[texson66]

The PC Rules of Engagement are supposed to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.

The fighting with one hand behind your back is endangering our servicemen and women. Drop the nonsense. Hit targets anywhere at anytime. Take the fight to the enemy!

If we had worried about this in Germany, we would still be in France with the Russians overunning Paris (wait a minute maybe ...)

Anyway, when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow!

[GraniteStateConservative]

We don't have the might to fight a holy war on several fronts.

[Kevin Curry]

The Iraqi people do not want liberation, they want destruction of U.S. forces.

I don't agree. They want liberation but are hedging their bets on the side of Saddam and his sadist sons in the event coalition forces don't get the job done. There is a tipping point at which the tiny trickle of internal Iraqi opposition will become a flood. That point will occur when they discern Saddam, his sons, and closest associates are no longer in charge. If Saddam is dead or incapacitated, that would explain why his closest associates continue to show films of him. They need his aura to keep the ordinary citizens cowed. When the aura is lifted, their own lives will be nasty, brutish, and short.

[honway]

We are well below that now (15 killed in action) and on the doorstep of Bagdad!

I hope you completely appreciate the strategic significance of a logistics line running from Kuwait to Baghdad, when our control over the region surrounding the supply line is tentative at best.

[Beck_isright]

If W is allowing the politicians to make the rules of engagement, we will lose at least 10% of our boys and maybe more. I'm not thrilled with some of the military decisions now coming to light either which indicate that the comments in this article might be true. First the continuing battle in Al-Nasiriyah for the bridges indicates we've lost our mind. Those civlian targets which are obstructing our taking the other side of those bridges should have been warned then obliterated. We can not let our Marines be picked off to act "humane". War is not humane. Second, what moron ordered an Apache attack on the Medina division without hi/mid/lo cap anti-aircraft supression support??? I've heard of some lamebrain moves but sending choppers in without fixed wing support takes the cake. If all of this pans out to be verified after the war, it really will suck. Because the idiots who ordered it will get promotions. And it's a scarey thought to think they could be on the JCS some day.

V

[Double Tap]

Exactly. We will get more and more support from the Iraqi's as we demolish Saddam's strangle hold on the country.

[Kevin Curry]

The only loss we have taken on the "tenative" logistics line was the result of a small convoy of trucks taking a wrong turn.

We have the means and will to keep the logistics line healthy and intact. Harrasment with small arms fire and RPGs from rag-tag irregulars is not going to disrupt it. We have realtime satellite and drone imagery to supplement nightvision and infrared detectors on the ground. The irregulars show up like white rice on black paper long before they get into firing position.

[BushCountry]

You're right. We should call it quits while we are ahead. Forget about all the sucesses and go home with our tail between our legs. We have the worst fighting force on the planet, our generals are a bunch of bumbling idiots.

The glass is never half full is it? As Rushbo would say, "negative nabalms of negativity!"

[holdmuhbeer]

I just love all the armchair generals around here. Our Generals didn't ascend to their position by being stupid and incompetent despite what some of you losers think. You can talk Clinton pc army, etc all you like but I have full confidence in our military and our leaders.

[holdmuhbeer]

I wasn't picking out you as one of the armchair generals I just had to respond, I guess I should have responded to all.

[CygnusXI]

Ah...

So now we know what Milo faced in Yugoslavia.
This Iraqi regime is arming the civilian population and hiding among them. I'm sorry, but under those conditions you have 2 options.

1. Shoot everyone.
2. Don't shoot everyone.

Only one of those 2 options mean victory.
What's it gonna be? Milo chose #2 and now he is a war criminal...

Look. If you are a civilian in Iraq you had better either get out, or make damn sure you are JUST a civilian.

[Kevin Curry]

Not to be a pedant, but I believe the term is "nattering nabobs of negativity." It was lifted from a Spiro Agnew speech that was written, I believe, by Pat Buchanan. In context, it was a poke in the eye of the media then, and is equally approriate today.

So much for trivia. Back to the war.

[BushCountry]

Thanks! :^)

[Double Tap]

Thanks for the clarification. My rank as an "armchair warrior" is still well below the General rank.

[chuknospam]

The United States suffered 148 killed in action, 458 wounded, 121 killed in nonhostile actions and 11 female combat deaths during our very successful 1991 Gulf war. We are well below that now (15 killed in action) and on the doorstep of Bagdad! Some people just can't take success!!!! Jeez, this is the most successfully executed war in history of mankind as it stands now. Every record is being broken. We are going against a fairly strong army.

That is the very truth! It would be nice to pitch a shut-out but the fact of the matter is, there isn't any way. Even if we never went to Iraq and chose to stay home an lob Minuteman nukes onto Iraq, there would be American civilians, contractors, and other people injured or killed, and in accidents related reloading the missle silos. We have deaths related to training, there was a helo crash in Afganistan but no outcry over the soldiers who died in that accident. Study WW2 just a little, so many men died and so many were overseas fighting that women had to take over stateside doing mens jobs. Yes it is terribly sad and we all morn the loss of any soldier, but remember 3000 died in the WTC attacks, 3000 innocent non-combat men, women and children in one day!!!!!. Don't loose perspective, we rolled onto Bagdhad in less than a week, were kicking butt and doing a good job. Pray!.

[hardhead]

Vietnam - all over again.

[ArGee]

The "rules of engagement" need to be reviewed. As it stands now that set of rules is costing American Soldiers, Marines, and Airmen their lives. America doesn't need to pull it's punches.

War is the execution of diplomacy by other means. I hate to see us lose a single soldier "needlessly" but the definition of needlessly has a lot to do with the political purposes behind the war.

One of our political purposes is to liberate Iraq and create another example of a free Muslim state, this one in the heart of the Middle East. It is up to the President to determine whether that political objective is worth the additional risk to the troops. If so, it is up to the field commander to accomplish that goal while minimizing that additional risk.

Shalom.

[Dubya]

bump

[wku man]

Exactly. Let's explain to the Marines who have just lost their buddies how it will "sow good will after the war" to disarm the enemy and bypass him, so he can re-arm and fight on in our rear areas. Let's explain to an Apache pilot how, by not firing artillery prep in the area where his buddies just got shot down, we're winning the "public relations battle" with the individual Iraqi soldier, who of course "we're not at war with", because "we're at war with his leaders". In both cases, if the Marines/Apache pilot didn't knock our teeth out, they'd sure be tempted to.

Yeah, we're wining this war, and we've taken very light casualties so far. But still, we've taken more casualties than was necessary. If it comes down to a choice between "innocent enemy civilian casualties" and needless allied casualties, it's no question where our default position should be.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[flamefront]

50 percent of the coalition's desired targets are being vetoed by high command for fear of hitting a sensitive "no combat zone."

I wonder what the Iraqi rules of engagement are if civilians are part of their army. There is a soft touch double standard about what to hit here.

And, yes, I am second-guessing the army of one.