Kurdish leaders meet in Turkey for talks on possible Turkish intervention in Iraq

AP ^ | 3/16/2003 | N/A

[a_Turk]

ANKARA, Turkey - Top Iraqi Kurdish leaders arrived for talks with Turkish and U.S. officials Sunday on Turkey's plan to send troops into northern Iraq (news - web sites) in the event of a U.S.-led war.

With U.S. President George W. Bush (news - web sites) declaring at a summit in the Azores that Monday would be a "moment of truth" on Iraq, Washington has urged Turkey not to unilaterally send its forces across the border if the United States attacks.

Kurdish officials warn a Turkish incursion could lead to clashes with their forces in northern Iraq, while U.S. officials say Turkish and U.S. forces could be caught in friendly fire.

U.S. special envoy Zalmay Khalilzad was scheduled to return to Ankara for a Tuesday meeting with the Iraqi leaders and Turkish officials. A senior U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity said Khalilzad would try and dissuade the Turks from intervening in northern Iraq.

Jalal Talabani, leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, and Nechirvan Barzani, a top official of the Kurdistan Democratic Party, as well as representatives of the Turkoman and other minorities in northern Iraq will attend the talks.

"We will discuss with our Turkish brothers and American friends the matters which concern us," Talabani told reporters.

The two Kurdish groups share control of a de facto autonomous zone in northern Iraq.

Turkey says it has to send forces into Iraq in case of war to prevent a massive refugee influx into Turkey. Ankara also fears the fall of President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) will lead to the creation of an independent Kurdish state and boost aspirations of Kurdish rebels who fought a 15-year war for autonomy in southeastern Turkey.

In an interview with Italy's daily La Repubblica, Kurdish leader Massoud Barzani said many Iraqi Kurds wanted independence.

"But we well know that international conditions don't permit that. There are limits between what one wants and what one can obtain," Barzani was quoted as saying.

[a_Turk]

If anyone wants on or off this list, please let me know.

[George W. Bush]

while U.S. officials say Turkish and U.S. forces could be caught in friendly fire.

Hopefully, Ankara won't be dumb. They've been warned. If Ankara doesn't recognize what this means, I'm sure the Turkish military understands it.

...Kurdish leader Massoud Barzani said many Iraqi Kurds wanted independence. "But we well know that international conditions don't permit that. There are limits between what one wants and what one can obtain," Barzani was quoted as saying.

We'll see if he means it. I think they understand that a Kurdistan will not be created under any circumstances. We won't tolerate it, Turkey and Iran and Syria won't tolerate it, and the new Iraqi ruling class would crush them as rebels because they would be laying claim to Mosul/Kirkuk which is half the national oil wealth in Iraq, representing a large portion of the wealth needed to rebuild Iraq.

[Dog Gone]

I wish you could explain to me why Kurds would flee into Turkey after we liberate them.

[nkycincinnatikid]

I hope for its own sake that Turkey does not overplay its hand over this issue so critical to the future of their democracy.

[a_Turk]

Dunno.. Who can say.. All we have to go on, without betting on rationality and intelligence, is precedent..

Last influx of "refugees" brought many a migrant and terrorist.

Face it, life in Turkey beats life in Irak. People from all over illegally enter Turkey. Many then illegally cross over seas to Greece and Italy.

I guess any excuse will do for refugees to seek refuge..

[xm177e2]

WWAAD? What would Admiral Ackbar Do?

[a_Turk]

>> Hopefully, Ankara won't be dumb. They've been warned. If Ankara doesn't recognize what this means, I'm sure the Turkish military understands it.

I guess this means that your boys better be careful not to get shot down by some Kurd who thinks he's using your heavy weapons to shoot us down, or something..

[Cicero]

If Turkey wants to seal its border, or even wants to go into Northern Iraq to prevent any Kurdish incursions, good luck to them. If Turkey is thinking about taking advantage of this war to grab the northern oil fields, they'd better think again.

It won't be "friendly fire" if they tangle with American troops, who are already in the region and are pretty certain to capture the oil fields as rapidly as possible.

Turkey has already damaged its own interests, but if they aren't careful things could get a lot worse.

[a_Turk]

>> If Turkey is thinking about taking advantage of this war to grab the northern oil fields, they'd better think again.

What are you, obtuse or something?

What are you threatening me for? You're getting me mad, so **** ***, ok?

[Mortimer Snavely]

Not a single mention of the fundamental Marxist-Leninist ideology or of the homicidal-suicidal psychopathic nature of these revolutionaries, oh, no, they're "rebels who fought a 15-year war for autonomy in southeastern Turkey."

[a_Turk]

And some of my friends on my ping list seem to be buying it..

[Mortimer Snavely]

Keep telling yourself "This is a conservative forum. This is a conservative forum. This is a conservative forum."

Then, hit your head several times against a brick wall, because I guarantee that it will feel absolutely fantastic when you stop.

[eleni121]

There you go again - a broken record - with the Marxist Leninist propaganda. Kurds are not Marxist Leninist except in the demented minds of turkish paranoids and Muslim turk lovers like you. There are more Marxist leninists in the Turkish parastate apparatus than among kurds. I guess some of the dementia rubbed off when you lived in Istanbul among the local yokels.

By the way - how much do the Turks pay you to spout Turkish lies?

[Mortimer Snavely]

"By the way - how much do the Turks pay you to spout Turkish lies?"

My God... you've figured it out. The spotlight is on me, I'll have to confess... I'm paid off in homemade yogurt and kebaps from the local secret cabal of Turkish infiltrators, disguised, with typically diabolical Turkish cunning, as a nuclear family seeking the American dream.

My heavens, you've figured it out. We'll have to disband operations and abort the tomorrow's pre-dawn attack on the frozen yogurt shop...

[a_Turk]

ROFLMAO!

[Mortimer Snavely]

From: Kurds and Kurdistans

Translated from Finnish, apparently, but well worth the read. It's about the only truly scholarly article I can find so far on the subject out there.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

PARTIES

A nation without state may feel orphan or homeless. In that case, however, the state has been given tasks that it could hardly fulfil.

The main Kurdish parties are all state-centrist, their background being hard-line socialist. The KDP and its Iranian brother party were founded in Stalin’s protection. In that time the Kurds were hailing Stalin as "the liberator of small nations".

When the KDP was released from the Soviet Union’s guidance in the 1960s, the PUK was founded to defend fundamentalist Marxism. The Kurdish section Komala was split up from the Iranian Communist Party.

By time, the number of Kurdish parties was increased by splitting. Those shocked of the collapse of Soviet power founded Workers’ Communist Party (WCP) in Iraq and Iran. This party has spectacular presence in the virtual reality, in internet.

Also "Marxism-Leninism, Mao Tse Tung’s thought" gained supporters among Kurds. They founded the Kurdish Workers’ Party, PKK, which is internationally the best-known, but by no means the only, Kurdish organisation.

There are dozens of specially Kurdish parties. Many of them are one-man enterprises or stages of the main parties. All in all, they share a common belief in the idea that a state on their own would solve all the problems of the Kurds, and the problems are understood as basically economic exploitation.

Because the Kurds have many but dear parties, also the goals of independence are rather party politics than national projects. There is no consensus on Kurdistan’s borders, form of government and symbols like flag. Each party has its own Kurdistan. Each party also has its own army, its schools, and its health system. The parties have adopted many tasks of tribes. Membership in a party is often strategic allegiance of family and tribe, not free and ideological choice of the individual.

Each party has its international sponsors: PUK has historically leaned at Syria, and KDP at Turkey. PKK has leaned at both Syria and Iraq. Exploitation has been mutual.

The Kurdish parties are fighting each other. For three years now, KDP and PUK have respected their ceasefire, mainly due to external pressure, but meanwhile, PKK has fought against both these Iraqi Kurdish parties.

In democracy it is natural that parties disagree. Usually they do, however, agree on large-scale national questions, and in the times of war they act under common war command. For example, the Chechens demand independence before all, and only secondarily come the questions of the country’s future systems of justice and economy. The Finnish Jäger (Finnish freedom fighters trained in Germany before the independence) included Red and White, Monarchists and Republicans. Among the Kurdish parties, such agreement is missing.

[Mortimer Snavely]

The jig's up.... I wonder what gave us away... I imagine it was that woman in the Kapali Carsi that looked too much like Lauren Bacall... it must have been she who broke the passwords and codes...

Curses! Foiled again!

[browardchad]

A nation without state may feel orphan or homeless.

Huh? Have the Kurds ever had a state?

[Mortimer Snavely]

Check out the link I posted.