Cross Ordered Removed From State Fair Park (Oklahoma City)

POSTED: 9:37 a.m. CST February 27, 2003 UPDATED: 10:39 a.m. CST February 28, 2003

OKLAHOMA CITY -- A 30-foot high white concrete cross has been removed from State Fair Park in Oklahoma City.

City Manager Jim Couch said he ordered the cross removed after getting two letters that suggested the city could be sued for violating the U.S. Constitution's prohibition against state-sponsored religion.

The cross had been at Fair Park for about 40 years, but fair officials are not sure where it came from.

State fair historian Paul Strausbaugh said he does not know who donated the cross.

Photos from the 1950s show the cross standing in a flower garden east of the Arts Center, said fair director of marketing Bran Munz.

The cross will be placed in storage and eventually will be declared surplus material, then donated to a church or local organization, Couch said.

Ok, that’s it, want to see how far this can go Libs? Sit back.

The Libs say that the U. S. Constitution does not allow ‘God’ or other religious items on Government property. Ok, let’s follow:

1. The US Currency has the words “In God We Trust”. Therefore US Currency must be unconstitutional. Therefore I cannot pay my taxes.

2. Next the Declaration of Independence uses the word “God” in the body of the text. Therefore the Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional.

3. Since the Declaration of Independence is the founding document for our government, that means that the current government is unconstitutional. Therefore all laws passed by the unconstitutional government are null and void.

What is the end result?

1. I want all my tax payments returned since the action of collecting taxes was unconstitutional. Please pay me in Gold.

2. Next, there is no government, therefore there are no laws.

Now Libs take that one. Welcome to the New World order. Suggest you buy a gun, oh the gun store does not take US Currency because it is unconstitutional, too bad............

I have found the trend altogether interesting. A lot of time and effort has been put into kicking God out of school so as not to unduly influence young, impressionable, minds. Then they fill that vacuum with things they want them to believe without the word 'God'. They strip kids of a religous morality and fill it with a new, improved version (as can be seen from this Article).

Personally I don't want schools teaching religion (That is up to our ministers, family members, etc) but I also would rather see them stick to more hard core knowledge in math and sciences and leave the moral teaching to the family. It would be like if I taught my daughter 2+2=4 and in school they decided to teach her it equaled something else.

Facts and theories are good to discuss, as is a broad range of social studies which are not targeted at pushing kids into a box. In my social study classes back in the day we learned about the pygmies, etc, and the various countries, cultures, and so forth. It was simple knowledge transfer of factual data versus 'feelings' data.

We are taught to respect other cultures and religions, but what about the american culture? The cross is a vibrant sign of that. Erasing that is erasing a culture, something I thought the left was telling us all we must respect...

Here's one point: would we want McDonald's to be able to put 30' concrete Golden Arches in the middle of the fairgrounds, and leave it up at no cost to them? If one isn't a believer in Jesus Christ--as I am!--then a symbol for Christ is just a symbol for yet another entity that wants one's money. I know how that feels because I was once an atheist and I did get tired of people pushing religion on me. (It never was people pushing religion on me that helped me get it, either.)

I think the atheists honestly don't see the difference between McDonald's selling hamburgers and a church (or conglomerate of churches) preaching the Gospel. Now they're WRONG but the fact they are wrong about is something they have to work out between them and their Creator--and no concrete cross is going to effect that process. That symbol is, pure and simple, for believers only. No one else gets any benefit from it, though it's a stretch to say anyone is harmed! I question the sensibility of leaving a permanent, exclusive structure up on public property.

This is not to say I think they're right to be offended by the cross. I think they need more to do. But, I personally think it's the permanence of a 30' structure on public property that probably is the practical problem. Not every group that wanted their symbol up in such size and material could do so, or there would be no fairgrounds left. Therefore, the very size of it is imposing and yes, endorses religion.

And I think we--Christians, atheists, everyone who pays taxes--do have the right to voice our opinion about how public property is used! Twice every year at this same fairground a crafter comes in to do Affair of the Heart, a craft show, and they are selling stuffed kittens (they will claim, if you question them, that it's rabbit fur, but that's such an obvious lie.) I find THAT offensive, not in the PETA sense but because I am a Cat Person and it it just disgusting to me! but they come and go and are not a permanent part of a public facility. The private show promoter lets them in; I don't see how the public is endorsing or subsidizing that disgusting project in any significant way...and so I don't send letters demanding they be excluded from the show. If they were given a permanent venue for their little trade, I might do something. They come and go, so I just wonder how they keep getting away with it.

This cross is truly a state-sponsored endorsement of a religion. I don't think the same case can be made for a nativity scene that comes and goes--is set up and broken down again by one part of the public that uses a space. They aren't excluding other groups that might want to use a portion of the space at other times. But a cross that goes up and stays up implies public endorsement of religion at public expense, and I think our Founding Fathers would have agreed with my reasoning.

Find a nearby chunk of private land and put it up. Buy or lease a 20x20 chunk of the fairgrounds and put it up. Or make it portable, not part of the fairgrounds at all but instead a transient private use of public land. That's all I am saying here. God doesn't bless us for forcing religious symbols on other people who don't want them, I don't think. Concrete is pretty darn forceful.

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