Parents protest U.S. schools irradiated meat plan

Environmental News Network ^ | December 13, 2002 | Randy Fabi

[Pushi]

Hell, I have even been irradiated--every time I get an Xray and when I received radiation therapy for cancer--which cured me, incidentally.

[general_re]

They keep irradiating my luggage at the airport, too....

[13foxtrot]

The meat that public schools (and military) get is the cheapest the government can find. ergo, the worst quality. They irradiate meat so the feces in it will not carry any diseases. It is too much trouble to keep the feces out. yum yum - irradiated feces.

McDonalds has the safest mass produced meat in the world because they hold the meat packers to higher standard than the government. The meat public schools get is one step above what gets made into to pet food. The kids should get better meat that is not filled with feces.

[palmer]

yum yum - irradiated feces.

USDA inspected Grade A feces.

[ZGuy]

[general_re]

McDonalds has the safest mass produced meat in the world because they hold the meat packers to higher standard than the government.

Har har. Would you like a listing of E. coli outbreaks and other contaminations at McDonald's restaurants over the last ten years or so? Might make you think twice about your next Big Mac ;)

[ctdonath2]

What few address on either side is why irradiating food works as a preservative method. The technique is comparable to how radiation therapy works in cancer treatment. The radiation randomly breaks down molecules, interfering with cell life processes - basically the germs either suffer terminal systems malfunction, or get poisoned by eating molecular garbage. In cancer treatment, this means killing lots of cells in the targeted area, and the person suffers a vague sense of exhaustion as the body desperately works hard to clean up the mess of dead cells and unexpected broken molecules. In food, this means the undesireable germs and parasites die off as lots of random molecules are turned into scrap, some of it poisionous.

Yes, there is no specific problems clearly linkable to irradiated food - precisely because of the random nature of molecular breakdowns caused by the radiation. The toxins produced and consumed are certainly low-level and widely varied; this does not strike me as something suitable for human consumption.

Some may compare this to known valid threats of certain diseases; that E. Coli and Salmonella are real problems does not eliminate the haze of random toxins in irradiated foods. I would not wish either on anyone; my conclusion (feel free to prove me wrong) is that 'tis better to thoroughly cook clean foods (home grown or hunted preferred) and kill the nasties that way, than to consume unknown toxins unaffected by cooking.

[Dan(9698)]

>>...how many here have actually eaten irradiated beef?

I bet most everyone has eaten irradiated chicken.

They have been doing that for years.

[13foxtrot]

Har har. Would you like a listing of E. coli outbreaks and other contaminations at McDonald's restaurants over the last ten years or so? Might make you think twice about your next Big Mac ;)

I never heard of a McD's E.coli outbreak.

OTOH, I am no fan of fast food. After reading Fastfood Nation I kind of lost my appetite. In the last year I stopped eating fast food altogether - I lost about 5 pounds and I was only eating fast once or twice a week.

[e_engineer]

The local supermarket here started stocking irradiated ground beef about eight months ago - I was just wondering if I was the only one to buy and eat the stuff ;)

Was it more expensive than the regular ground beef? I would prefer irradiated meats, but I don't think it's worth paying more than ~10% extra, because we always cook and handle foods properly to minimize the risks.

[e_engineer]

basically the germs either suffer terminal systems malfunction, or get poisoned by eating molecular garbage.

lots of random molecules are turned into scrap, some of it poisionous.

Care to give us a link to back up your claims here? This sounds like a lot of Barbara Streisand to me.

[ctdonath2]

Don't you know how radiation poisoning works? or radiation therapy for cancer? How did you think irradiated food is sterilized?

This is just one of many easily-found descriptions of the process:

Radiation therapy uses x-rays, gamma rays and other sources of radiation to destroy cancer cells. Radiation kills cells by breaking up molecules and causing reactions that damage living cells. Sometimes the cells are destroyed immediately; sometimes certain components of cells, such as their deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), are damaged, thereby affecting the ability of the cell to divide.

Think real hard about what that means. Do you know what chemicals are being created during this molecular demolition process? Sure, I'm phrasing things harsher than you'll normally find (especially when the process is being promoted as beneficial); point is that living cell processes are terminally disrupted by the random demolition of molecules...now kindly explain how the aftermath, the broken and reformulated pieces, are assured to be safe for human consumption.

Do some reasearch yourself before calling my comments BS.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Food that requires irradiation should not be eaten, irradiated or not. Without high intensity farming, unsanitary slaughtering, or long storage and transportation times, irradiation would not be necessary."

Absolute BAH-LONEY. Food irradiation is a major breakthrough in preventing food losses by spoilage. Food will last many times longer WITHOUT the need for refrigeration, and also without significant loss of nutrients.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Do you know what chemicals are being created during this molecular demolition process?"

Actually, yes--the irradiation process forms free radicals. SO DOES COOKING!

"..point is that living cell processes are terminally disrupted by the random demolition of molecules...now kindly explain how the aftermath, the broken and reformulated pieces, are assured to be safe for human consumption".

Uh, the cells in meat are ALREADY DEAD (they died when the cow/pig/goat was slaughtered from lack of oxygen). The only cells that are killed by irradiation are the BACTERIAL CELLS that cause spoilage. By killing those cells AFTER THE FOOD HAS BEEN SEALED INTO PACKAGING, spoilage is prevented. The chemcial processes by which this happens are WELL understood, and feeding studies (feeding irradiated food to animals) have been done for fifty years with no evidence of detrimental effect.

[general_re]

I never heard of a McD's E.coli outbreak.

No? Google it sometime - they recently had a major outbreak in Argentina, little girl died from an E. coli tainted McBurger last year in London, forty-something people sickened in Scotland in 1991, 50-something people in Michigan and Oregon in 1982. And that's just working from memory - I'm sure there's plenty more. McDonald's does have a better record than many places, but that's really due more to their cooking methods than because they demand extra-clean beef or anything like that. Irradiation would go a long, long way towards clearing up those sorts of problems.

OTOH, I am no fan of fast food.

Good for you. And in case you think about changing your mind someday, I almost forgot my favorite McD's contamination case - the four people in Maryland in 1987, who contracted typhoid from a McDonald's employee who didn't know he was infected. Granted, irradiation wouldn't have done anything to prevent that, but still... ;)

[e_engineer]

Your link failed to back your claim of anti-microbial action due to microbes ingesting "toxic" products of irradiated food.

Did you notice that was the only part of your post I challenged?

I still don't think you can produce evidence of this, but I will ask you again. Please post a link to back up your claim that germs "get poisoned by eating molecular garbage" or they "die off as lots of random molecules are turned into scrap, some of it poisionous."

[general_re]

Was it more expensive than the regular ground beef? I would prefer irradiated meats, but I don't think it's worth paying more than ~10% extra, because we always cook and handle foods properly to minimize the risks.

I haven't bought any in a month or two, but I recall that the price was very, very comparable to the non-irradiated meat around here. If it was more, it wasn't much more, and almost certainly not 10% more - I want to say that it was on the order of $1.99 for a pound of 90% lean ground beef.

The nice thing about it is that, yes, you still have to handle it carefully, but that's because you don't want the meat to get contaminated, not because you're worried that the meat will contaminate other foods. And you can have an honest-to-goodness rare hamburger without worrying about some flesh-eating bug killing you in your sleep. For me, that alone is worth a slight premium - heck, I'm waiting for irradiated steak to show up, so I can make them really rare, the way they should be ;)

[palmer]

Food will last many times longer WITHOUT the need for refrigeration

Sure it will "last", but it will spoil as soon as it is opened and eaten (i.e. before you have time to digest it). Here's a simple test: take a sealed package of food that has been irradiated and open it. Open a sealed package of fresh (refrigerated) food. Leave them both at room temperature and observe them over a day or two. The result I expect is that the older irradiated food will spoil within hours while the fresh food will remain more or less edible.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Sure it will "last", but it will spoil as soon as it is opened and eaten (i.e. before you have time to digest it). Here's a simple test: take a sealed package of food that has been irradiated and open it. Open a sealed package of fresh (refrigerated) food. Leave them both at room temperature and observe them over a day or two. The result I expect is that the older irradiated food will spoil within hours while the fresh food will remain more or less edible."

More BAH-LONEY. I have news for you--the EXACT experiment you talk about has been done OVER AND OVER as a demonstration in food science irradiation classes. The "fresh" food SPOILS FASTER than the irradiated food EVEN AFTER IT HAS BEEN OPENED because the "fresh" stuff already has bacteria/mold spores on its surface(s)--it takes a while for the same bacteria/spores to reach and establish itself on the irradiated food. I don't know where you are getting the stuff you are spouting, but it is so scientifically bogus as to beggar the imagination.