Posted on 10/14/2002 10:21:45 AM PDT by Conagher
The contents of a Human Waste Packout system are displayed at the Bunny Flat Trailhead at Mount Shasta, Calif., Friday, Sept. 13, 2002. The large target is held down by four rocks. After use the target is sprinkled with cat litter, that comes in the paper bag at right, rolled up and placed in the paper bag, which is put in a plastic bag to be packed out. On Mount Shasta and at a growing number of national forests and parks across the West, climbers are being asked to bag more than peaks as they take the "leave no trace" ethic to a new level. In the past four years, climbers have hauled 10 tons of their own waste off the mountain in a rite of a passage that is seen as a model in other wilderness areas overwhelmed by the sight, stench and health threat of human waste.
On the tundra. Elk crap don't stink like people crap, nor is it carry diseases such as hepatitis. Trust me, I had elk all over the place around my cabin in Colorado. Could take a step in the woods without stepping on elk crap. But it doesn't stink. Plus, the elk don't use toilet paper, either.
On the tundra. Elk crap doesn't stink like people crap, nor does it carry diseases such as hepatitis. Trust me, I had elk all over the place around my cabin in Colorado. Couldn't take a step in the woods without stepping on elk crap. But it doesn't stink. Plus, the elk don't use toilet paper, either.
Try the DNC. Slip a dollar bill in there before you mail it.
LOL!!
They have on Mt Ranier. Have to helicopter the stuff off - the problem with mountains is, they're hard to get up and down.
Uh, I don't think this program is mandatory. And I don't think the forest service expects to have 100 percent compliance. But even if they get fifty percent, that's a significant drop. A lot of hikers are already doing this on their own. Me, I'd always make sure that kind of business was taken care of before I went hiking. BTW, do you go hiking above timberline?
Where I am we're in a particularly vicious battle with the green-goon politicos who are destroying what they're claiming to protect. I haven't met one yet, from their lowest thugs to their most educated elitist that really knows what they're talking about, or who could articulate a pragmatic scientfic approach to what they're trying to accomplish.
I wish to God they would let us be conservationists instead of hijacking the issue. We're here to help.
I see this as self-defeatist. If you want people to keep crap off the mountain, provide a way for them to place it in a facility you've provided, that is as near a port-a-pottie as it can be. Otherwise those in charge will be butting their heads against a continual wall of non-compliance and treating people on the mountain as if they were axe murderers.
A lot of folks are doing this on their own free will already. REI sells poop bags already. Folks realize this is a problem and are taking action. If you don't do this activity, then how can you pass reasoned judgement on the situation?
I see this as self-defeatist. If you want people to keep crap off the mountain, provide a way for them to place it in a facility you've provided, that is as near a port-a-pottie as it can be.
Ever climb a 14,000 foot peak? No roads. Extremely steep, rocky trails. So just how do you propose to get a porta-potty up there? Folks who are willing to go through the difficulty of climbing such a mountain are more prone to accept the need for this than someone hiking a three-mile loop trail in a state park somewhere.
That's a huge problem - conservation is a noble cause. But the enviros have created a situation where there is a knee-jerk reaction to just about anything they propose, whether it makes sense or not.
Ever climb a 14,000 foot peak? No roads.
There are two with roads - Mt. Evans and Pikes Peak. And yes, there are restrooms at the top of Mt. Evans, but you can drive the honeydipper up there to clean 'em out.
No I don't. The problem I see is that whether you, I, the Forest Ranger and most of the US thinks this is a great idea, few are actually going to do it. Yes some die hards will. Yes other folks who always try to follow direction will. But what you're going to come down to sooner or later is some drachonian measure to get 100% compliance.
A lot of folks are doing this on their own free will already. REI sells poop bags already. Folks realize this is a problem and are taking action. If you don't do this activity, then how can you pass reasoned judgement on the situation?
From experience I can usually spot a bogus indefensible position when the promoter tries to eliminate all reasoned opposition with some test. I don't hike above timberline so I have no understanding of human nature and the failure of nitwits to come up with a reasonable solution. Okay?
Do you take pictures of your children and sell them on the internet? Do you participate in wife swapping clubs, where both husband and wife sleep around with others, or actually watch each other doing so with third parties? Do you carry around a video camera on a devise that allows you to shoot up unsuspecting women's garments? Do you rob banks? Do you try to defraud people? Do I need to go on? I don't need to do any of these things to have an opinion about them. I don't need to hike above timberline to spot an idiotic dip-stick idea from 1,000 miles away.
I see this as self-defeatist. If you want people to keep crap off the mountain, provide a way for them to place it in a facility you've provided, that is as near a
port-a-pottie as it can be.
Ever climb a 14,000 foot peak? No roads. Extremely steep, rocky trails. So just how do you propose to get a porta-potty up there? Folks who are willing to go through the difficulty of climbing such a mountain are more prone to accept the need for this than someone hiking a three-mile loop trail in a state park somewhere.
Well there's your answer. Since it's so steep these kits won't work anyway. You need a level place to use them, case closed. Just to highlight this lunacy, I see no mention of urine. Let me see, which is the bigger problem on the trail, hundreds of people who need to take a dump, or literally thousands of people who need to take a whiz? What do you propose to take care of this problem, whiz bottles? Why don't you just admit it, you'd rather eliminate those filthy humans from going up there in the first palce.
33 posted on 10/14/02 12:08 PM Pacific by dirtboy
Well, I would not ask for advice regarding guns from someone who doesn't shoot. That is why I asked about your actual experience in the matter. I lived out in Colorado for a couple of years. Climbed some of the mountains there. Saw the people. Read articles about the subject. It's not a big deal to many of the people who climb a 14,000 foot peak.
Well there's your answer. Since it's so steep these kits won't work anyway. You need a level place to use them, case closed.
Oh, give me a break. You are looking for ANY excuse to discredit this notion. There are plenty of places one can put a small piece of paper, keep it flat, and do what needs to be done. That is vastly different than trying to get a porta-potty to the top of Longs Peak.
Just to highlight this lunacy, I see no mention of urine. Let me see, which is the bigger problem on the trail, hundreds of people who need to take a dump, or literally thousands of people who need to take a whiz?
Urine soaks in. Is more easily broken down. Doesn't require TP.
What do you propose to take care of this problem, whiz bottles? Why don't you just admit it, you'd rather eliminate those filthy humans from going up there in the first palce.
First a strawman, then an ad hominem. Once again, MANY HIKERS ARE ALREADY DOING THIS. ON THEIR OWN. You have me confused with an environmentalist. I am a conservationist, sir, and there is nothing wrong with promoting steps such as this. And show me exactly where I have said people should stay off mountains. I'm someone who hikes often, that claim doesn't make a lick of sense.
Okay Dirtboy, just how many people are climbing this 14,000 foot peak each year? 50,000? 25,000? 10,000? 2000? 1000? If it's as rugged as you state, the number is going to dwindle significantly. And like you once intimated, I doubt most people are holding it until they start this climb. A very small percentage of these people actually take dumps on the mountian. Isn't that right? What we're more than likely talking about here, is fifty to a few hundred instances per year.
For these few instances, I can't imagine it being more destructive to place some crap down 9 to 12 inches below the surface, than it is for humans to trample all over the same precious tundra. And it certainly isn't more destructive than thousands more people whizzing on that same tundra.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.