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To: Swanks
" like Walter William's view. FOR the lottery because its a tax on poor people. Largly poor(er) folks play the lottery. They don't pay taxes. They should pay taxes. The lottery is a way for them to pay their taxes. That simple."

Rush isn't joking when he says that what we really need is a tax increase on the poor. They're the only ones that don't pay taxes.

As for the lottery - the moral argument befuddles me. Why should we put government in the position of regulating morality. As conservatives, we should be for individual freedom - and that includes the freedom to lavish a few bucks on the occasional lottery ticket if we so choose. I've never understood the Conservative argument that since a lottery is gambling, we should prohibit it. That puts us in the hypocritical position of making nanny decisions for El Publico. That's supposed to be the exact OPPOSITE of what we're all about.

Michael

10 posted on 09/17/2002 2:21:20 PM PDT by Wright is right!
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To: Wright is right!
Were our Founding Father's Nannys?

I am sick and tired of the idiotic claim that "We can't legislate morality." Some stinkin hippie somewhere thought up a cute saying and everyone now repeates it as the gospel. THE FACT IS, ALL LAWS LEGISLATE MORALITY.

Our Founders had more laws protecting morality than people now could even imagine.

Pornography and Blasphemy were banned. Homosexuality, Adultery, and Fornication were all capital crimes.

So were Washington, Madison, Hamilton and the other founders "Nannys"?

Don't believe me that the founders thought that morality was most important??

------------------------------------

"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. John Adams

"The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure, than they have it now, they may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty." John Adams

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not only of all free government, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society." John Adams

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. John Quincy Adams

"From the day of the Declaration...they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of The Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct." John Quincy Adams

"Man, considered as a creature, must necessarily be subject to the laws of his Creator, for he is entirely a dependent being....And, consequently, as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that he should in all points conform to his Maker's will...this will of his Maker is called the law of nature. These laws laid down by God are the eternal immutable laws of good and evil...This law of nature dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this... Sir William Blackstone

"Blasphemy against the Almighty is denying his being or providence, or uttering contumelious reproaches on our Savior Christ. It is punished, at common law by fine and imprisonment, for Christianity is part of the laws of the land. Sir William Blackstone

"The preservation of Christianity as a national religion is abstracted from its own intrinsic truth, of the utmost consequence to the civil state, which a single instance will sufficiently demonstrate. Sir William Blackstone

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man. Alexander Hamilton

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry

"The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed." Patrick Henry

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom." Patrick Henry

"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." Patrick Henry

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. John Jay

"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man toward God." Gouverneur Morris

"If thou wouldst rule well, thou must rule for God, and to do that, thou must be ruled by him....Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants." William Penn

"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals and so little pains to prevent crime. Take the Bible out of our schools and there would be an explosion in crime." Benjamin Rush

As we can see here, our founders did not endorse or embrace libertarianism in the least. Our Founders understood that laws must reflect Almighty God's Moral Precepts.

Libertarianism is a religion of self indulgence and hedonism. It teaches that the person can decide for himself what is right and wrong, and has to answer to no one.

It is humanistic to the core.

Libertarians believe abortion, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, sexual perversions, prostitution, drug use, gambling ect... are all things that should be practiced and enjoyed.

They hate and despise authority, and they blame government and laws for their problems.

GOD MAKES LAW. MAN's LAW MUST REFLECT GOD'S LAW.

Our Founders understood this principle. They had laws that protected the moral fabric of our nation, because they understood that a good nation must have morality. They took it for granted that the people were moral, that is why the constitution worked.

The hippies of the 1960's were not moral, their immoral/ammoral lifestyle is incompatable with the constitution.

If our founders had only known what we have become, they would have drafted a much different constitution.

Way back in 1815, The Pennsylvania Supreme Court decided an important case, here are excerpts from that case: It reflects the case law of the day, and the attitude on which our nation was founded.)

This court is...invested with power to punish not only open violations of decency and morality, but also whatever secretly tends to undermine the principles of society... Whatever tends to the destruction of morality, in general, may be punishable criminally. Crimes are public offenses, not because they are perpetrated publically, but because their effect is to injure the public. Buglary, though done in secret, is a public offense; and secretly destroying fences is indictable.

Hence it follows, that an offense may be punishable, if in it's nature and by it's example, it tends to the corruption or morals; although it not be committed in public.

Although every immoral act, such as lying, ect... is not indictable, yet where the offense charged is destructive of morality in general...it is punishable at common law. The destruction of morality renders the power of government invalid...

No man is permitted to corrupt the morals of the people, secret poision cannot be thus desseminated.

Remember:

"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."

18 posted on 09/17/2002 2:44:44 PM PDT by FF578
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To: Wright is right!
Your argument that government becomes a nanny if the lottery is not allowed is off the mark...Should government put in place something that takes money from the poorest, teaching them to hold to hope of quick riches rather than saving and investing (which is what REALLY creates wealth)...does the NEA REALLY need more money to improve education?...NO, money is NOT the answer to the education problems in this country. I was in Georgia when the lottery started. I stood in line, seeing long lines of people, children wearing no shoes in tow, as they could drop 100 to 200 dollars on lottery tickets. This is ONE reason I oppose the lottery, the other is that the GOVERNMENT and EDUCATION don't NEED more money...they already squander what they take from us in tazes....an NO state that has the lottery has REDUCED propterty taxes as a result of getting the lottery.
26 posted on 09/17/2002 3:23:34 PM PDT by Moby Grape
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To: Wright is right!
Forget the conservative "moral argument" that gambling is bad. The true conservative argument should be that if gambling is something that the public agrees it wants (ie. personal freedom to choose) that, the argument should go, the government should not be running this business. The state should tax and regulate it like other businesses but should not be running the business. Therefore, a "government run" lottery is a bad idea.
30 posted on 09/17/2002 5:03:14 PM PDT by SoggyBottomBoy
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To: Wright is right!
I've never understood the Conservative argument that since a lottery is gambling, we should prohibit it. That puts us in the hypocritical position of making nanny decisions for El Publico.

Gambling is already prohibited by law in NC. Proponents of a state lottery want to make an exception and grant a statist monopoly on gambling.

So, who's position is hypocritical?

Beware.

37 posted on 09/18/2002 6:25:32 AM PDT by Ides of March
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